Some advice on dropping a bottle please

[creations]

DS is 7 months and has been self feeding since 5.5 months.  He took to solids very well and very quickly and as a result cut his milk intake and now takes just about the minimum requirement (differs each day, I do count his formula used in breakfast porridge but I don't count other dairy although I know it does count.  he has between 500 - 600ml per day).
He had been on 3 hr milk feeds up until 6 months because with silent reflux he never could manage to go 4 hrs and have bigger feeds.  At 6 months the milk feeds naturally extended to 4 hrs because the solid feed come between.

Now on 4 bottles plus a DF roughly 7am, 11/11.30am, 3/3.30pm, 6.30pm (BT), 10.30pm (DF)
And has solids meals at roughly 8am, 12.30pm, 5.00pm.

Thing is I never know how much he is going to take at each feed and I feel like I ought to be doing something to get a handle on this.  I almost always offer 180ml partly because this used to be a full bottle for him (would almost finish at BT and DF which were the easiest feeds for him taking reflux into account, usually less during day though) and partly because he has carobel thickener in his milk and to measure it I need to make 90 or 180ml bottles (although I sometimes guess on an amount now), also if he finished a smaller bottle (say 90ml) and wanted more it takes me a while to make it due to warming the milk adding the carobel and waiting for it to thicken so obviously I want to avoid this.

He takes the first bottle about 30 min after wake up, sometimes he will have a good 150ml, other times won't take more than 30ml (breakfast porridge will have about 100ml so I feel confident he gets his milk this way.  On the days he takes a good morning milk feed I give something else for breakfast)
The 11am bottle he asks for and will start to really fuss if he has to wait and then rarely takes more than 90, sometimes only 20ml.
The 3pm bottle he takes between 30 and 150ml
BT bottle 90 - 150
DF bottle 90 - 120 (I now only offer 120 here as I am gradually weaning)

I realise that sometimes it will depend how much solid food he has eaten as to what his appetite will be for the next milk feed but I'm offering around 350mls per day more than he will take and it seems so disorganised to be making big bottles for him to just have a little of it rather than fewer good sized feeds.  I never let him snack on milk when he was younger but feel like that's what is now happening at times.

Anyone have any advice please?
Should I cut the 11am bottle?  Maybe offer a little sugar-free biscuit snack and a sippy cup with 30ml of milk instead?
Should I just continue as we are at the moment until the DF is weaned and see what the state of play is then?
Or am I doing this milk and solids thing completely wrong?

[Lolly]

Personally I would get rid of the DF first and then see how things are. Most babies are on 4 bottles until around 9/10 months and your routine looks great for his age!

I do know how you feel about the variation in feed size - I have poured vats of formula down the sink over the years Unfortunately even if you dropped a bottle there's nothing to say he would get more predictable!

Laura

[creations]

Thanks Laura.  It's good to know that I'm doing ok as I was thinking back to when he was tiny and his Nana would burp him for 45 min half way through a feed and then continue feeding him - she was teaching him to snack - I told her off many times as it was me literally left 'holding the baby' that wanted hourly feeds once Nana had gone home.  These small feeds have reminded me of that so I did need the reassurance to continue.

Much appreciated.

[creations]

DS seems to be taking less and less milk.  I don't think he's reaching his 500/600ml per day which I think is the 'requirement'.  His solid feeds are good, he self feeds (mostly) and enjoys his food.  I know people say that with BLW they don't take in much food at first but he took in a decent amount from day one of solids and now seems to be eating for England.
I'm not sure if I should offer less solid food so he will take more milk?
Or should I rely on dairy in solid food and offer more?
I'm unsure about increasing the amount of cheese offered because of the salt.  He loves natural yogurt which would be another source of dairy but I don't want to give too much as I suspect it makes him refluxy.

[Lolly]

Maybe you need to drop to 3 daytime bottles to get bigger bottles into him?

Laura

[creations]

I'm concerned that even if I drop to 3 bottles he still won't increase his milk, but just decrease even more.  I'm offering milk in a sippy cup too but he hasn't got the hang of it just yet.  I thought his day feeds would go up as the DF has been cut to half what he had up to 6 months although actually he's done that himself in the last couple of weeks.  I 'm bottling out of reducing it further because I keep thinking it's one of the few times he will take milk in.

I'm probably worrying over nothing.  Maybe don't have enough to keep me occupied!!

[Lolly]

How is the reflux? Could that be playing a part in his reduced desire for milk? We actually dropped to 3 bottles at 8 months with my refluxer because she was refusing bottles in the day and I was struggling to get 20oz into her. It may not be the case, but worth a thought - they don't always show really obvious symptoms when meds need tweaking.

He could be teething too, that often has an impact on their milk intake but not solids as it hurts to suck more than gnaw!

Laura

[creations]

Yes i have been concerned about his reflux the last week or two.  He started sicking up again, several times per day (although not today or yesterday).  He has silent reflux more so than bringing back up but it was the development of sickiness and discomfort at around 4.5 or 5 months that started us on meds.  He was poorly last week though, wheezing which got worse and had meds (steroids) for three days which could have thrown him off.  And teething too yes!  He's dribbling a LOT the last couple of days, this is something he did a lot prior to the reflux meds, everyone told me it was teething but he didn't dribble at all for weeks on the meds even when he cut two teeth so I wonder if it is reflux.  anyway (sorry waffling), I asked the doc to check his reflux dosage on monday incase it needed to go up for his increased weight gain and age but he said the dose is fine.  I'm not 100% convinced.  He's stopped taking his 2 hr morning nap too and we had hundreds of NW over the weekend (usually zero, possibly 1 NW if he has bright red teething cheeks and wakes in pain).

There's so many variables.  Suppose I am just trying to 'control' what I can (ie milk/solids) as so many things that might be disrupting him are out of my control (reflux/wheezing/teething!)

Laura, when you dropped to 3 bottles did she take the same total amount over the day or less/more.  Did she seem to be 'more hungry' for it due to waiting longer?

[Lolly]

What meds and dose is he on? What's his weight? Teething does make reflux worse.

My DD took more on 3 bottles than she did on 4 bottles. The two day time ones were really hit or miss, sometimes only 1oz or 2oz, when we moved those to one bottle just before her nap she took 6/7oz and with her morning and bedtime bottles it got her up to just about 20oz a day.

Laura

[creations]

He was 16lb 6oz about 2 wks ago.  He's on Ranitadine 0.43ml.
I've discovered he will take more milk if it is chilled.
When he was newborn I combination fed (planned to bf but lots of problems there) breast fed, and bottle fed expressed bm from the fridge and formula from the fridge.  As I had read babies will take cold milk I didn't see the point in warming it if he took it, also meant that if he finished a bottle I could get him another oz no problems as we didn't ned to wait to warm.  Worked great. (apart from my mum telling me off for not warming it and saying this caused the reflux, warmed it for 2 weeks andit made no diff to the reflux so went bakc to chilled).
Anyways...been warming for a while now as the carobel milk thickener says to warm the milk, I think it makes the carobel dissolve and thicken the milk better.
But tried him on cold milk yesterday (left to warm in the room for a short while but didn't actually heat) and he was much more enthusiastic.  Perhaps the cold is nice on his sore gums too.
I was so pleased about him taking more milk I gave him more at the DF instead of less!  That won't wean it!

Do you have experience of carobel?  Do you think it thickens cold milk?

[Lolly]

No experience with carobel I'm afraid, we used a reflux formula.

He is however on a very small dose of ranitidine for his weight. At 16lbs hes about 7.5 kg and the 2-4mg per kg range for 150mg/ 10ml ranitidine is 1ml - 2ml x2 per day. If the meds are that same strength then he's not even getting 1mg per kg. I really doubt that dose is doing anything for him. We started with 2mg per kg for my kids but they both needed the full 4mg per kg for it to be effective, DS had it 3 times a day by the time he was 1.

I would go back and see your Dr to discuss his meds to be honest. He could be drinking the milk better cold because he's finding it more soothing.

Laura

[creations]

Laura, thanks.
I messed up and didn't say he has it 3 times per day, so it's a total of 1.29ml per day.  The strength on the bottle is 75mg/5ml (so same as you mentioned 150mg/10ml).  But beyond that I'm not sure how I work out what mg he's getting or what he should be getting.
I'll call the paed and find out about the dose again.  Seems pointless asking the GP again, the last one told me the hundred or so NWs we had during those steroids was due to me feeding him too close to BT...but I've fed at BT for 7 months and never had NWs like that plus if I don't feed at BT then he's going to NW hungry and I can't just not feed a hungry baby which means I'd feed in the middle of the night which defeats the object of not feeding at BT.

Although he is definitely teething, ramming his fist in his mouth, ramming soft toys and his muslin etc in and oftentimes even making growling 'ow' type noises which are muffled by the cloth too.  He's getting calpol for the pain.

Off to DF now, and I've gone for the slightly increased bottle again I'm soft and like the idea he is getting some milk and comfort, we'll wean another time!

[Lolly]

That's still a small dose, the max he could have at 7.5 kg is 2ml at each dose (so twice a day is normal). A total of 1.29ml a day gives him 18mg of the drug a day when he could be having up to 60mg.

Here is a link to a NZ site, you will need to scroll down the page a bit and click on the bit that says you agree to their terms to see the dosage schedule. http://www.reflux.cryingoverspiltmilk.co.nz/medicaltreatment/dosageschedule/

Laura

[creations]

Thanks Laura that's really helpful x

[creations]

Not sure if I should start another thread really, but it's kind of a continuation of the original post...

Day time feeds are better now that I'm giving cold milk.  Still on 4 per day (plus DF). He's taking roughly 60 - 90, occasionally 120ml in the day feeds (not getting any of those 20ml feeds now).  The reflux seems to have settled so perhaps it was the teething making him worse, I haven't increased his meds dose but he seems ok.

But weaning the DF isn't going as planned.  He had gone down to 90ml on his own, then I dropped what I offered to 90ml and he seemed fine with it, drained the bottle (or almost) but didn't fuss for more.  After a few days he seemed to take a little more at his morning bottle.  Then I dropped to 80ml and again he drained the bottle but didn't fuss for more...but then EW at 5am hungry.  Several days of 5am wakings and I'm shattered.

Before starting to wean the DF, for a long time we've had EWs but over several months I'd gradually got it to more like 6 - 6.15am (with the odd 5.15 here and there) and I didn't have to get up until 6.25 (when the alert turned higher pitched, not crying though) but these EW were never hunger, they were 'I've finished sleeping, now bored, need to get to some toys, come pick me up!'.  If I tried to feed he'd either push the bottle away or take 20ml and push it away.  So I take him to play, and around 30 - 45 min later give the bottle.  Depending on wake up this would be 7am or maybe 6.30 (always try to get close to 7 but without him getting distressed).  So I don't really understand why he is now waking at 5am ravenous.  Has he hit a growth spurt or have I done this by cutting 10ml from his DF?
I've now upped the DF to 120ml and last night he drained it, didn't fuss for more but woke early and was still ravenous.

I'm not sure what to do now.  Weaning the DF is mainly selfish reasons (I admit it, I would love to be able to go to bed early just once a week to keep myself energetic for him.  As I'm on my own there is never an opportunity for an occasional lie in) but if he's going to wake early then it defeats the object of it and I'm now getting less sleep than I was before.

He has a long AM nap because we have no opportunity for him to get a long PM one (gets 1 or 2 short ones) and his first A time is around 3.5hrs so I don't think he can be finishing his night sleep then.

I'm not sure if I should up the DF even more to try to get the wake up back to after 6am or maybe try to drop it cold turkey and go with the NWs for a few days and try to cut what I offer at each of those?
What do you think?

(sorry I know it's a long post for this question!)

[Lolly]

I think you should get the Dr to put him on a decent dose of ranitidine (at least 2mg per kg, better still 3mg or the full 4mg) for a 3 or 4 weeks and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn't make a difference then you can drop back down and no harm done but I think you will notice a difference The feeds he is taking are really small, he should be able to take at least 6oz (180ml) at this age, more is more usual. Taking feeds that are smaller than you would expect for age and weight is fairly typical of a refluxer - they take enough to take the edge off their hunger but much more hurts so they get good at controlling what they take.

Laura

[creations]

OK, thanks.  I thought the smaller feeds were because of his solids.  He did take feeds of 150 - 180 (and in a growth spurt up to 270 in one go, it didn't even fit in the bottle!) prior to starting solids so I assumed he cut back because he eats a truck load of solid food 3 times per day.  Will speak to the doc.
Thanks

[Lolly]

Even on solids they should still be taking a good amount of milk, I'm assuming you are doing milk first and then solids an hour or so later?  My refluxers for example at this age would take 7-8oz at wake up, maybe 5-6oz bottles in the day and then 7-8oz at bedtime. We moved DD to 3 bottles in order to increase her intake as she really wasn't interested in milk in the day so I was then making 3 8oz bottles a day and she was having at least 20oz out of those three bottles.

If you think solids are having an impact on his milk then scale them back a bit. I know he is BLW but most of his calories need to be from milk, so if you are giving milk first then he should still be taking decent size bottles and then eating his solids an hour later so even on a 4 hour bottle routine he has a good 2 hours+ to get hungry again for his milk.

Laura

[creations]

Laura, I think you're right about the meds.
I've been thinking about it and although I thought the reflux was getting better, on second thoughts he is probably not taking as much due to the reflux.  I think he holds out for the solids.  Yes I'm doing milk first and solids an hour later (evening meal is often a bit more than an hour later but I do try not to get too close to the BT bottle) but within only a couple of days of starting solids he cut his milk right back as though he knew the solids were coming and he'd rather have those.
I worried I was giving too much solids and if I should cut back but I posted for info about portion size for a LO to see if I was over feeding on solids.  He only just reaches his minimum amount of milk and sometimes doesn't reach it (I do give some yogurt and cheese and he gets vitamin drops every day), but I think you're really right about his reflux.
last night he woke within an hour of going to bed with a sudden cough and cried out sort of spluttering.  He hadn't been sick though so I think it was acid that went back down.  The more I think about it the more I think his meds are too low.  I know other babies can take a really good milk feed, my LO should be able to too.
I do think he is taking just enough milk to take the edge off his hunger and then holding out for solids which he eats with great enthusiasm (hardly know how I'm keeping up with the shop bill!).
I'll get his meds increased.
Thanks

[creations]

Laura, just wanted to let you know that DS's ranitadine dose has now been upped to 2ml twice per day (which I think you said was the max for his weight so it sounds good).
I feel silly and guilty for not having had it increased before.  I feel I've really let the little man down.  The whole thing of him taking lots of solids put me on the wrong track, then the reflux getting worse at the same time as teething.  I feel I should have been more clued up...and then again when I did ask the GP about increasing the dose he said the dose was fine (grrrrrr to him!!) and I should have known better.
As it's been bank holiday weekend the earliest I could speak to the paediatrician's secretary was today and by then I felt that the situation had become urgent.  DS and I were up almost the whole of last night and I am positive he was disturbed by the reflux, and eventually went into melt down because he was so tired.  In the end, after trying everything else to help him, all I could do was tell him I'm sorry and hold him close to me as he screamed himself back to sleep.  It was truly horrible and I feel like a terrible mum.
Thank you so much for helping me with this.  I'll let DS know it was you that worked out what the problem was xx

[Lolly]

{{HUGS}} don't be so hard on yourself, you are in no way a terrible mum! I've been there too, DS was on gaviscon for way longer than he should have been when he needed more. I've been dealing with reflux for nearly 5 years and with 2 children - I made lots of "mistakes" with DS, let Drs brush me off etc, etc. I learn from him and got DD treated earlier.

Hopefully the increased dose should kick in quite quickly and he (and you) will get some relief.

Remember too that he won't remember any of this, he just knows he has a lovely mum who loves him to bits and is doing the best she can for him

Laura

[kinderbaby]

Thanks for sharing this useful information to help babies drop a bottle. Also, you can try to drop one bottle feeding and replace it with a cup. Give your baby a few days to adjust before dropping a second bottle feeding.

[creations]

I'm back again.
about 9 days on the new dose of ranitadine now.  So far I have continued with the 4 bottles per day plus DF to see how things went with the meds increase.  He does seem more settled but milk continues to go down plus I used to get more into him almost every day by giving cereal for breakfast (an hour after bottle).  I have 4 different types of baby cereal so there is a bit of variety for him, he now usually refuses it and would prefer I took him out of the highchair and forget breakfast, there is no encouraging him and I don't want to make food a big issue by forcing it esp as he does so well with solids and with the lack of milk he really needs a good relationship with solids to get his nutrients, I end up giving fruit and toast instead, or eggy bread, fruit pancakes etc.  I think he will now agree to cereal maybe once or twice per week so I can't rely on this as milk intake.

We are now at about 300-350ml per day and he will be 8 months in a couple of days.
He is also often skipping the 11am by napping through it (slightly increased A time with age plus some better wake up times in the morning making A start later).  I've offered milk on wake up (maybe 12.15pm) and after 10-20ml he refuses more.  As solids lunch is usually around 12.30 I have moved on to that thinking he isn't hungry, but he starts shouting for food the second he realises we are going towards the highchair.  He eats very well at lunch.

So, I think he's dropping or dropped the 11am bottle.  But he is also only taking 60 - 120ml at 3.00/3.30pm
I've had a look at the sample EASYs for his age and the FAQ on bottle times.

How does this look for timings?
7am milk
8am solid breakfast
12.30 solid lunch
3.30 milk
5.00 solid dinner (he eats less at this meal)
6.30 BT milk

Also, should I try flavouring the milk with vanilla or banana (something sugar free) or is that going down a really bad track - I'm in two minds really wouldn't want to but really want him to get his nutrients yk?

[creations]

Today only taken 180ml total, possibly 200ml if I count what he had in a sippy cup with his breakfast and lunch.
I had totally planned to drop the DF before any of the day bottles but it just doesn't seem possible when I know it is one of the few times he will take some more milk.  He will likely take 90 at the DF tonight.

I think I need to speak to the paed again.  Don't know if I should cut all his solids to get him to drink milk, but kind of doubt he would take it, I mean from day 1 of solids he was asking for food all day but cutting back on milk. Or maybe I need to get a calcium supplement and just let him cut his milk down. sigh!

[Lolly]

Are you able to get much dairy into his solids? His minimum 20oz intake does include the dairy in food, so if he isn't drinking the milk then you really need to increase the dairy in his food.

I would speak to his paed, if reducing his solids isn't going to get him to drink more you do need his advice. Maybe you could get in to see a dietician who could give you better advice.

Laura

[*Kara*]

Hey Creations!  Long time no talk, hun!

I think I would try the suggestion of cutting solids for a while to see if he ups his milk intake.  Be prepared to give it a couple of days though... I have had to do this with DD when she started to prefer solids to milk... a couple days of no solids made her realize that milk came first...

We went to 3 bottles at 8 months and DD's milk intake stabilized... She is really distracted and the queen of stopping after a couple of ounces.. I have found that giving her all of her bottles in her bedroom with minimal lighting really helps... so I get her bottle and then go to her in the morning so she has that bottle before she leaves her bedroom.  Her afternoon bottle is part of her wind down for her PM nap (works two fold - she finishes it easily and it really helps her settle for that PM nap which can be a bit of a struggle some days now)... her last bottle is part of her bedtime routine - I am lucky in that she rarely falls asleep eating... if she does, it's because she is really knackered at BT!  She does STTN so the occasional feed to sleep is no big deal here at all.

This is our current day -

wake at 6/615 - bottle at 620ish and out of her room for the day
solids breakkie at 8/815am
Small top up bottle (teething has made that first bottle/solids dodgy, it will be phased out soon) - 3 oz and nap at 930am
solids lunch at 12/1215
bottle 8ozs and nap at 245pm
solids dinner at 530pm
bottle at 745, BT 8pm.

[creations]

Thanks.  I'm going to talk to the paed again, as you say Laura perhaps a dietitian/nutritionist is needed for advice on this, I was having that thought too.  Whenever I speak to his health visitor they only say to up the diary in his solids but it seems I'd need to give him LOTS.  I mean I don't know how much cheese is equivalent to ounces in formula but the salt level needs to be watched because of his age.

Yogurt makes him more refluxy because it's quite acidic so although he loves it I do have to watch how much and how often he eats it.  I've just bought some creme freche, mascarpone and single cream to see how we go with those in things.

Thanks for the info Kara.  DS won't take more than 10ml on waking, he has to be awake for a little while before he will entertain a bottle!

[creations]

sorry for the abrupt ending there - he's awake from his nap! xx

[*Kara*]

LOL No worries!  I know what it's like when they abruptly wake during momma's internet time

DD used to refuse a bottle first thing too, but keeping her in her room for it changed that completely!

[creations]

Thought I'd send an update.
Spoke to paed's secretary couple of days back and she will be calling me back tomorrow with advice or appointment etc (his paed isn't in until tomorrow so it's as fast a response as I can expect).

Gave some thought to feeding in the bedroom, Kara, but in the morning he now generally has a poo straight off so I have to take him to get cleaned up prior to his feed and if I left him in the bedroom to go get a bottle he would go crazy shouting and crying.  He still sleeps in the same room as me so for sure he would know i was leaving him instead of getting him up.  His afternoon feed is almost always out of the house so there wouldn't be an option for that one to be in the bedroom.

He had his first swim class at the weekend.  That turned out to be a high milk day (490ml).  Waking him to take him out meant he got his 11am bottle instead of missing it and half an hour of swimming made him ravenous for the milk I gave directly after.  But I can't realistically take him swimming every day and although it would increase his milk intake he'd be expending more calories too so it evens back up.

Starting to mull over a theory that the more dairy I offer in his solids the LESS milk he takes, as though he knows he's had enough dairy?  Just a hunch, would need some exploring.

Two nights ago went cold turkey on the DF.  I know I know, I kept saying I couldn't do this, but he took only 2 or 3oz at it, so really what's stopping him having that in the day?  Nothing but habit.  He's 8 months old, he used to drink 180ml in about 10-15 mins so he really shouldn't need 5 bottles every day and only be taking little sips from them.

Night 1:  At 2.30am I was wishing I hadn't gone cold turkey in the dark hours I thought he must be really hungry so fed him - duh!  He took about 60ml.  He woke again at 3.30am and we had a hell of a time of it, lots of cuddles, lots of screaming, he was totally MAD that he was awake.  Eventually back to sleep at 6am (he's usually up about 6 or 6.30!)
In the broad light of day, with a more clear head I mulled it over and decided he hadn't been hungry at all.

Night 2:  NW at about 3.30am.  Didn't feed but did eventually offer some water which he had a bit of.  I suspect that this waking was down to lost lovey which I think has happened a couple of times recently (muslin square, he is back arching and accidentally pulling it underneath himself then laying on it, so when he is transitioning between cycles he must be searching for it in his sleep and then wakes when he can't find it).  Eventually back to sleep around 4.30am and slept until 7.45am.  By the time he woke, did his poo, started his alert to wake me, nappy change, prepare feed etc it was 8.15 meaning he went almost 14 hrs between feeds and yet he was still in a very pleasant mood, no crying for his bottle (more like polite requests).  He took 130ml which is the most he's taken in one feed for AGES (apart from the swimming day) although I thought he might have more considering he'd gone 14 hrs!
As the morning feed was better I decided not to give the 11/11.30 milk which he keeps skipping anyway due to napping, but I've been offering it when he wakes which is close to solids lunch.  This meant his second milk was at 3.30pm, 110ml.  And his third milk was at BT, only 80ml.  Day's total still only 320ml  but it feels a bit more structured than all those tiny bottles and he hasn't been asking for anything so clearly doesn't feel like he's missed out.
Now on night 3 of no DF.  I hope for a better night.

[creations]

another update

Night 3 without the DF.  BT feed as usual around 6.30pm and sleep at 6.45pm ish.  Slept through until 6.20am yippee!  Morning feed was a measly 90ml.

Overall cutting the DF has not affected his milk intake over 24hrs. It was only a small feed anyway.
Cutting the 11/11.30am bottle he still hasn't noticed, but he increased the 3.30pm bottle today to 150ml.

Paediatrician's secretary phoned back today.  There is no concern what-so-ever regarding his low milk intake of approx 270ml (9oz) per day.  His solids are a good varied diet and eaten with enthusiasm and good amount, he gets vitamin drops and he gets dairy solids. Hi weight has remained on the same centile since birth.  So all is well and I will stop worrying.
She did offer for a referral to see a dietitian but she seemed to think this was not needed unless I was really panicking and I've decided this is probably unnecessary.  I need to accept that he has taken to solids with real enthusiasm and finds it less painful than milk.  I've found ricotta is good dairy solid, less acidic than yogurt and low sodium unlike cheese.
Also now that his DF and mid-morning bottles have gone the day feels more 'normal' and the bottles he is still taking (3 per day) feel more substantial as it was all so bitty before.  Now he does appear to take a full bottle at some point in the day even if it isn't 3 times per day.

[Lolly]

If you are ok with it and his Drs are fine with his intake I think you are right to stop worrying and let him take what he will. At the end of the day we can't force them to eat and it's got to be better to keep his feeding stress free so he is enjoying it!

Laura

[creations]

keep his feeding stress free so he is enjoying it!

yes I'm totally for that.  There's been a couple of times I've caught my mum trying to force his bottle when he's clearly batting it away and trying to sit up and I've had serious words with her about it.  Her generation had a different approach I suppose and as she knows his milk intake was low she probably thought she was helping.
I think if I was less aware of his needs there could/would be a problem with the low level of milk.  The health visitor yesterday (as well as the ped today) was stressing the milk requirement is far more important for babies with less solids intake and a poor overall diet (perhaps not being offered variety or quality of nutrition).
I'm still going to monitor it all of course.  Thanks for all the help.

[*Kara*]

Great news Creations!  I was actually coming to mention that I know your DS has a hugely varied diet and just might not need those calories from formula anymore   Maybe just offer him formula in a sippy with meals??

[creations]

Maybe just offer him formula in a sippy with meals??

Yeah that's what I'm doing.  I have both milk and water at meal times so I can start by offering milk but if he really needs the water he can have it.  It's v exctiing because he is just starting to 'get' the sippy cup and realise that he's supposed to hold it himself, v cute.
I think I was right to be concerned when I was, and now that I've explored various avenues and ensured he is doing ok, I think it's time to let him get on with basically what he wants.

I'll still be taking an extra large bottle to his swim class on saturday though and I reckon he'll almost drain it too

[*Kara*]

LOL!  The little fishy will wear himself out!

Holding their own sippy is so cute!  DD has been holding hers for a while now, but still hasn't figured out that she has to tip her head back to get the water out of it - so funny!  She gets so mad at it and throws it across the room

[creations]

Starting to mull over a theory that the more dairy I offer in his solids the LESS milk he takes, as though he knows he's had enough dairy?  Just a hunch, would need some exploring.

Well, it's not a controlled test or massive scientific breakthrough but I've totally relaxed the whole dairy thing and his formula has increased.  Rather than trying to give him extra dairy in his solids I just went back to a normal diet.  There's still cheese, butter, milk etc in small/regular quantities in whatever he has to eat but no extras and he is now taking more like 350 to 450ml from bottles PLUS he has agreed to take cereal for breakfast again so is getting even more formula in that (this morning I measured it, I used 150ml to make a big bowl of thick cereal as finger food and I think he must have eaten around 100-120ml worth of it)!

Oddly (and slightly annoyingly) he has also started to wake up for his 11/11.30 milk feed again.  This is really interrupting his nap (down to 40 min instead of 2 hrs) so I might have to bring it forward to feed prior to the nap.

He's back to having 4 bottles per day and will only have 50 - 90ml at most feeds, on the odd occasion he shocks me and takes 120.  I keep thinking of what you said, Laura, about dropping to 3 bottles and that he really ought to be able to take more than a couple of oz in one go.  He appears incapable of taking a proper milk feed.  All other LOs I come across have about 9oz in one go at BT, DS has 2 or 3oz (but he goes right through the night with 12 full hours between feeds) and then has about 2oz 30mins after getting up.

Do you think I should just leave him to it now that I know his milk intake is ok at the lower amount (but also that it has increased some too) or do you think this indicates more investigation into the reflux is needed?