8 mo having horrible nws and naps are not good either - what is going on?

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, thanks so much for the support! And hugs!! It is much appreciated.

We had what I thought was a decent day today. But night has not had a great start. Again!

Wake 6
Nap 9:05-10:05
Nap 1:20-2:45
Bt asleep by 6:20 so about 3.5 hrs A time.

But he has woken at 7:10 (after 50 mins) then I resettled and he awoke again in 5. I resettled again, let's see.

I have also noticed just since yesterday that heis no longer rubbing his eyes at 3 hrs.

I am still trying to keep am A time at 3 hrs so it fits well with dd school run. But I think I will increase the next A time to 3h15 then try 3.5 hrto bed kind of like how I did today.

When he didn't wake at 30 mins after going o bed I thought yay! But didn't last long.

I don't know what his deal is! And he settled so well at bt too.

[shresmummy]

Ugggh! Our night has been terrible so far. He has woken crying at 7:10, 7:20, 7:40 and now 8:05!!! All this after going to bed at 6:20!

Yikes I fear for the rest of my night!

I am going to put his nws to something out of my control now... Nothing I do seems to help. He had a good day today andstill such an awful night. Maybe it's just something he has to grow out of?

No sign of any teeth yet either! I kep saying he is teething forever!

[sherry lynn]

*hugs* I hope your night went better than you thought it would.

The only thing that sticks out to me with those early evening NWings is that perhaps you still aren't giving enough A time, especially after a nap longer than 1h15m 

[mjohnson33]

Personally, I would talk to his pedi.  I think since you have tried everything as far as manipulating his A times and nothing is working, maybe thats not the problem??  Seems like he doesnt sleep well no matter what and maybe something is bothering him and its causing all these wakings....I know I have been to the dr many times b/c when it affects his sleep its obvious something is wrong.  Poor little guy!!!

[annette.xx]

Hey again

so sorry you are still having it so hard - so unfair on you 

Im pretty sure that all this madness is an UT causing OT loop - I think that if you stick with the 3hr first A time then you need to cap that first nap at 45 mins then do next A time around 3hrs (you will have to play around with this one but start at no more than 3hrs) then you will get a long nap and I bet you it will be alot longer than 1hr 15...this will then leave him so much better rested to do the remaining A to bed which would need to be a full 3hrs 30.

The one thing I know for sure is that my DS needs 9.5hrs A in a day to get a decent nightsleep ...

the thing that stands out most from your day was that he napped 1hr then 1hr 15 second nap so a 3hr 30 last A time would defo be too much for him to handle...this is where the UT causes OT cos if your first A is too short but you still allow a long nap (anything over an hour is restorative to an extent!!) then the next A time will need to be much longer to build up the tiredness enough ...so it would really need to be at least 3hrs 30 I reckon...

so 2 choices - im sure this will help (fingers and toes crossed) - cut first nap and stick to 3hrs A time or stretch the first A to 3hr 15 and do 1hr 30 nap then 3hr 15 next A which may soon creep to 3hrs 30...

I think if you can keep that first A at 3hrs it could work really well for a short am nap long pm transition ...my DS actually seems to be doing a U turn and wanting a long am nap so I may end up long am short pm - but I dont think I want it this way really cos I know I will come unstuck when his A time gets over 4hrs!!

Annette.xx

[mjohnson33]

I was so desperate I went to see a sleep specialist for my DS.  I had been on here for months on end trying to find something that worked for me and with everyones wonderful advice I tried nothing worked.  This lady told me NEVER to wake a sleeping baby, as I was capping his naps per instructions on here. She also told me that every baby is different according to A times and that you should really just listen to their cues.....that being said, I know that I listened to her and let him sleep as long as he wanted during the day and started putting him down for his naps when he showed me tired signs instead of stretching his A time and he went from waking numerous times a night to only waking once maybe twice.  And at least one time was to eat and right back to bed.  I know every baby isnt the same but I just wanted to let you know what ended up working for me.  My son still isnt a stellar sleeper but he has definately improved at night.  I know this is so frustrating as I am still dealing with it too, I am simply offering my two cents.  Hang in there momma!!! xxo

[*Kara*]

I also think he is in an UT/OT loop... I also agree 100% with mjohnson! 

I used to cap DD's AM nap and it was a disaster!  She was cranky all day and woke during the night... had a really hard time settling at BT too.. she would fight her PM nap because she was soooo tired!

I watch her in the AM to see when she is ready for her first nap.  It's always between 3 hrs and 4 hrs after getting up.  Teething can shorten that time and a good night's rest will increase it... since I don't stare at her all night while she sleeps, I have no clue if she was restless or not... we all have nights that we sleep great and some that we don't.  Babies are the same and may not be upset enough to call out, they could just toss and turn like we do and be exhausted in the morning    

I only have a few rules... I NEVER wake her from her AM nap.  If she needs more than 2 hours, then she gets it.  I have actually let her sleep for 2 hrs 45 mins on a couple of occasions    I will wake her from her PM nap to preserve a decent BT if needed.  I try to let her sleep at least 45 mins if she battles her PM nap and goes down late... then I will shift BT if I have to.

That said, I would bet your LO needs a much longer span of time before BT.  Mine has done 4 hrs since she was 6 months, or she will have trouble settling for the night as well.

[annette.xx]

wow - such great advice mjohnson - I do wonder sometimes if I should just go back to tired cues - the only problem I have with this is that my cheeky chap shows really good tired signs at just 1hr 30 - 2 hrs in the morning which then leaves me clueless for next nap!! and I was starting to get EW...

I do remember mashi (a fellow BW) saying that her DS at 9 TO 13 MONTHS was doing a 2.5hr A time then a 45 min am nap so maybe my DS does actually need a shorter first A time!!

I suppose for me the stretching the A time has worked cos I am so OCD about naps and A times I can work my way out of trouble fairly easy so get back on track 90% of the time - this has given me much better nights!

Annette.xx

[mjohnson33]

Thanks ladies.  She also told me that 3 hours of A time is usually too much in the morning after a wakeup and if they are showing tired signs 2 hours into the day they need a nap.  So if he does that to me, then I do go ahead and nap him.  But I can tell if he will really go for a nap or if he just looks tired. LOL

I have really relaxed about A times lately and really just listen to him.  He really isnt on too much of a routine b/c he doesnt do well with strict times. So I nap him when he is tired and I usually get good naps out of him.  I am enjoying things much more now than I was before when I was so stressed out about getting the correct A times. 

[shresmummy]

Hi ladies, that is all some great advice! I have never got to a stage where I cap his nap.but as you know I am kind of restricted 3 mornings a week with dd school run.

I am not at all stretching his am A time. Today for instance he wanted to sleep at 2 h50 min and I got a 1h5 min nap. It's thenext A time I'm struggling with. He is short napping again for the pm nap and ending up ot before bt.

Should I try 3h15 min A time after a 1h am nap? Or o you reckon that's too much?

[*Kara*]

I would try it...

[shresmummy]

Last night was average again...but this morning he did a 1h40 min nap after barely a 3 h A time. And now I have put him down for the pm nap after 3h15 min when he was showing tired signs. Fingers xxxxxxxxxxx for a good nap and a good bt and night tonight.

Hope everyone is having a good weekend!

[shresmummy]

The pm nap went well after 3h15 min Atime. He slept for 1h10 mins!

But I am still having trouble with bt. Did I put him to bed too late tonight? The nws have started again!

Wake 6:10
Nap 9-10:40!!!
Nap 2-3:10
Tried bt at 6:15 he was hyped up for some reason. Refused to settle till 6:50

Nws have been at 7:40 then again at 8:20. Wonder how rest of the night will go.

[sherry lynn]

At 6:15 was he showing ANY tired signs? I personally think he is a little one that likes
Lowest A time
Second lowest
Highest.
So today would have been
3h
3h15
3h15 (at the earliest) probably 3h30m.
However, You don't generally want to stretch too many A times at once, so once you stretch out that second A time, then I would stretch out the A time before bed.
I would also bed money that he is an 11 hour a night guy. So if wake up is 6 ish then bedtime is 7ish.

[*Kara*]

Agree with Sherry.. .I think he needs a longer A to bedtime