14 month old - suddenly NW after 45mins

[Mackjack]

UT/OT loop definitely makes sense! I'll do as you suggest - aim for 7pm or earlier (hard to tell when she's tired these days though!) Thanks so much - I'll report back!

[Mackjack]

Ok, so, I put her to bed at 7pm that night, as you recommended. She slept soundly til 6am. Then she napped from 11.50am-1.35 so 1hr 45. BT that night was 7.15pm. This morning she woke at 5.55am and napped 11.50am-1.40 so 1hr 50.

She's waking up  happy enough and seems happy all day but these 1hr45ish naps don't seem long enough to me when just a week or so ago she was having 2.5-3hours and I'm worried that in a few days some OT could build up. I'm not sure what to do tonight - put her to bed early??

[sianie]

Do you think the naps could be OT or UT unless there's any teething going on?

I would maybe aim for BT around 6.30pm.

[Mackjack]

I don't think teething's going on (but who knows!).

I'm inclined to say OT. I tried to get her to bed early tonight but she fell asleep in the car for less than 10mins on the way home from granny's and this gave her a bit of a boost. So when I tried to put her to bed, she was worked up and was bouncing around and shouting when I left the room. So I had a bit of a panic where I couldn't decide if she was OT or UT (though falling asleep in the car was a big OT clue!!) so got her up for a bit to calm her down. She ended up going to bed at 7.20. I reckon she's going to have an OT  night and wake early tomorrow - around 6am. If so, and the nap is around 1hr 45 again, I will definitely aim for an early bedtime tomorrow night.

Sorry, feel like I'm asking really stupid questions!! Sometimes just typing on this board is a big help as it helps me think things through and often, realise the obvious!! Thank you!

[sianie]

Even short car naps can give them enough of a boost to male BT later  ! So it could be she was OT then UT by BT.

If you get lots of NW's etc tonight then it could be you try for a nap a little earlier to curb the OT. FX for a good night!

[Mackjack]

Just a quick update - we seen to be getting back on track. You were right, I think, it was an OT/UT loop. The past couple of days she's gone back to sleepign 7pmish to 6amish with a 2hr45 nap in the day. So I'm going to see how we go and continue to adjust bed and nap times as necessary.

Thank you, again!

[sianie]

Great news! 

[Mackjack]

Sigh..I'm back again...thought I had this sorted  but I just can't work her out at the moment.

As I said in my last post, after what seemed to be an OT/UT loop I got her back to sleeping 7pm-6am (which is a bit of an earlier wake up than I'd like but hey-ho) and having a nap of around 2.5/3hours.

But just a day later and she started having short naps again. So she's going to bed at 7pm, waking about 6 and having a nap at about 11.30/12 for only 1hour 40. Sometimes she wakes happy from the nap, other times she wakes a bit miserable but is fine once she's up.

 The other day, she roused about 5.50am and got up at 6.10, I got her down for a nap at 11.45 for 2 hours until 1.45 - she woke a little miserable. I tried to put her to bed a little earlier - 6.40pm - but she wouldn't have it but I got her down easily at 7pm. The next day, her gran had trouble getting her to nap and got her down at 12.15 and she slept for just 1hr 40 again.

1hr40 naps - what do they mean? Surely they're not quite long enough for a one nap day? Or do I just have to accept that that's her nap lengthe now? I've tried putting her to bed early , putting her down for naps early etc but nothing seems to be consistently getting her to nap longer and wake later in the am. I don't think there's any teething happening.

[sianie]

1hr 40 naps can be UT or OT depending on what's gone on before. Anymore teeth coming through?

Do you want to post your current routine?

[Mackjack]

Sure. At the moment, it's

BT -     7pm
Wake - 6am
Nap - 12 ish (can be anytime from 11.30-12.30)

Actually though, yesterday her gran had a really hard time getting her down to nap and only got her down at 1.30 and she slept just an hour. So last night, I put her to bed at 6.35pm, she woke at 6am and then I put her down for her nap at 11.15 and had to wake her after 2hr55 (2.10pm) - hooray! I put her to bed at 7.15 tonight.

[sianie]

I wonder if she's OT & the not settling at nap time is because her sleep window has been missed & she's got her 2nd wind by this time. If she's napping at around 12pm after a 6am WU that's a long A-time for her age (6hrs). From what you've said it's interesting that an earlier nap meant she slept for longer which indicates that later naps are making her OT. 5hrs A-time is probably around the most that LO's can handle at this age......

[Mackjack]

Yes, I'm finding it really hard to read her nowadays so whenever she fights a nap or BT I assume she's UT and let her stay up a little longer but actually, she's probably OT as you say. Yesterday, she was up at 5.50am - I tried to put her down for her nap at 11.15 and she stood up in her cot, was shouting and banging so I went back in to get her and she was laying there kicking her cot. I got her up for a little while and when I put her down again she did the same again, only this time I left her and she eventually went to sleep at 11.45 for 2 hours. I should've just left her to it the first time around but I just find it so hard to judge if her behaviour is OT or UT.

Do you think I should try to go by the 5 hours A time and use that as a guide as to when to put her down? Before all this happened, she was having about 5/5.5 hrs A time in the morning and then sometimes as little as 4.5hrs before bed and sleeping just over 11hrs at night.

The other thing is, it seems to be no matter what time she goes to bed (as I'm adjusting BT according to when and how long she naps) she's waking around 5.50am which is just a little too early. Do you think WTS might help here? Or is this just something I've just got to put up with for now?

[sianie]

Before all this happened, she was having about 5/5.5 hrs A time in the morning and then sometimes as little as 4.5hrs before bed and sleeping just over 11hrs at night.

I'd give this a go to see if you can get things back on track. I've always done set nap & BT's with my LO's as this 'set's their bodyclocks & generally gives us more predictable days, so you could try for a nap at say 11.30am for example.

It depends on what's causing the earlier waking as to whether it is a phase that will pass....some LO's are naturally earlier wakers; other earlier wakings can be caused by teething or the need for a routine tweak....as always it's a case of trial & error to try to get to the bottom of what's going on.

[Mackjack]

When you say you've always  had set nap times, do you mean you put your LOs down after the same amount of A time each day or that you put them down at the same actual time each day?

Today she was awake at about 5.45am then went quiet til about 6.10 (not sure she was asleep though). Put her down for her nap at 11.30 as you suggested (she cried a little bit but settled really quickly). She slept til 1.45pm (so 2hrs 15). So I tried to do BTat 6.45 (5 hrs A time, I know you said to aim for 4.5 but didn't quite make it!). She cried when I left the room and kept crying until it escalated and I had to go in. I kept the light off and put my hand on her back and she just kept wriggling around for ages until she eventually started playing. So I assumed she was UT and got her up for just 10mins and all of a sudden she seemed really OT and went down at 7.25. Again she cried but just for a couple of mins.

So, do  you think that the first time I tried maybe she'd already been OT but then got a second wind so started acting UT?? I've been keeping a sleep log and I just can't work out the perfect A time in the afternoon especially as she keeps napping for different lengths. Do you think maybe tomorrow night, I should try giving her 4.5hrs and if she doesn't go down, give her another 10mins, try again and if that doesn't work, I'll definitely know she's UT (as usually a second attempt always works)?

God, I feel guilty saying it but I'm finding it really tough constantly over-analysing her BT, A time, nap time, UTness, OT ness..... Usually I manage to solve any sleep hiccups within a week or so (with this website's help!) but this one just seems to keep going....

[sianie]

A-times can be difficult to work out.....some LO's prefer a longer AM A-time then shorter PM A-time or vice versa etc.....what do you think works best for your DD?

My 'set' times are a set time of day that they nap & go to bed (regardless of WU), I've found that this helps to set their biorythm so that they are naturally tired at these times. It definitely makes our days more consistent & takes the guess work out of constantly trying to figure out A-times.

It could have been that she was a little UT after the long nap (although at least you know that a nap around 11.30am does give you a good long nap so it sounds like it's figuring out the best BT...I would maybe try for around 5hrs A-time after a 2hr or longer nap).