how long can I keep rice pudding?

[creations]

I want to make rice pudding for LO, never made it before but will just follow the instructions (minus sugar) and bake in the oven.  I know rice is high on the bacteria levels so shouldn't be kept and re-heated etc, is that the same for rice pudding?
If I bake, wait for it to cool, then put it in the fridge can I serve it cold the following day?  What about after that?

[lesliemarie]

You know I've never really thought about it.  For me I make it more of a traditional pudding where it's done on the stove top.  That probably doesn't help as the rice isn't cooked twice.  But generally I would keep it in the fridge for 3 days.  Honestly though it doesn't usually last that long as DH loves it

[firsttimemummy]

I think as long as you don't try to re-heat it, it is fine.  I think it's the re-heating that causes the issues.  Why not make some for your LO and the rest of the family can eat the rest (maybe just adding more sugar to your portion)?

[creations]

OK, I did wonder if it was just re-heating that would be a problem.
Thanks for the help.  I've never made any before and the pack of pudding rice I have says to make it in the oven for 2 hrs (long time but seems I can whack it in and forget about it).

I'm so useless at knowing how long things can last.

[firsttimemummy]

I made some the other day - pudding rice, oat milk (we are dairy free) and a bit of sugar, in oven for 1-2 hrs (forgotten now!) ... it was soooooo tasty (so much nicer than Ambrosia!!).

I'm so useless at knowing how long things can last.

I tend to go by look/smell/taste (more cautious for the boys with meats though)

[creations]

The suggested recipe on the pack (I like it when they give you somewhere to start!) says to add sugar, raisins, nutmeg and vanilla essence.  I'm going to leave the sugar out all together and use some dried mixed fruit that I have (cranberries, raisins, cherries etc) which I am sure will make it more than sweet enough.

I tend to go by look/smell/taste (more cautious for the boys with meats though)

I think I am over cautious and throw stuff in the bin when I needn't.
Left overs are usually only big enough for just DS and not me too but I find if I offer the same meal the next day he looks at me like I've really let him down lol What he tucks into with great enthusiasm on day 1 is just moved around the tray on day 2 whilst he looks expectantly around the kitchen to see if there's anything else he can have.

[firsttimemummy]

You could always freeze the leftovers

Forgot the rice pudding also had a few drops of vanilla essence in it. 

There is a good book by Amanda Grant http://www.amazon.co.uk/Baby-Toddler-Healthy-Eating-Planner/dp/1845334396  It tells you which meals can be frozen and how to re-heat once frozen etc (I am never sure about meat once it has been frozen so really liked this book told you what to do) - really nice recipes too for each stage.  Only negative was that the book has no index (I ended up writing my own!!) - it may have been re-printed since my copy though as I know a friend had to wait for a re-published one a year or so ago. 

[lesliemarie]

This may sound silly but what is pudding rice?  I just tend to use regular cooked long grain rice in my pudding.  I would like to make that baked one or DD though

[creations]

pudding rice is short grain rice.  I believe most super markets put it on the shelves near the cooking or near the jellies and canned rice pudding rather than where the long grain and basmati rices are shelved.

I had a very frustrating time in the supermarket though, having looked in all 3 sections back and forth up and down aisles I eventually asked a member of staff to help me.  'oh yes follow me' he said and led me to canned rice pudding.  I explained...he led me to cooking section, no joy, then off to the world foods section where the long grain is and tried to hand me long grain rice.  DS was starting to get really fussy as his nap was due, another staff member jumped in saying he knew where it was (I chose not to follow them to the other end of the supermarket again) and they came back with a can of rice pudding, and a third staff member asked me to follow him to the same canned section and then told me off for having asked more than one member of staff for help (well when two of them didn't know where it was I thought it fair enough to ask someone else rather than hike up and down the shop all evening with DS getting more and more grouchy).  Eventually they told me they were out of stock. Sigh!

That evening my mum brought me some she already had although I don't think she has ever made rice pudding so I have no idea how she had this pack.
You should also be able to buy tapioca and semolina to make sugar free puddings.

[lesliemarie]

I generally use egg yolk and cornstarch to make mine.  I know you can use all cornstarch but it makes a kind of odd pudding.  I know it isn't low fat with all the egg in it though 

How do you do it when you bake it?  Do you cook the rice first?  If not what is the ratio of oat milk to rice?

mmm now that you mention tapioca I want to make blueberry pie.  No idea why tapioca should remind me of that but my grandmother used it to thicken blueberry pies.  Seems like such a small part of the pie shouldn't remind me of it.   

[creations]

recipe on the pack is:
50g short grain rice
30ml caster sugar (I won't be using this)
568ml (1 pint) creamy milk
5ml vanilla essence
1/4 tsp ground nutmeg
25g sultanas

rinse rice in cold water, put rice, sugar, milk, sultanas into a buttered oven proof dish (capacity 1.5 pint), dot with butter and sprinkle with nutmeg. (they have neglected to say where to put the vanilla but I think it's safe to say in with the rest of the ingredients ).  Bake at 150c 300f gas mark 2 for 2 hrs, stir well after 30 min.

Think I'll give it a go tomorrow.

[creations]

quick update.
I made the above recipe with a slight variation.

double the amount of rice (100g)
no sugar
10ml vanilla essence
ground nutmeg
mixed dried fruit chopped up into smaller bits
1.5 pints of formula
half a tub of mascarpone (blobbed around the dish after the other ingredients were in).

I saw on another recipe to put the rice dish inside a bigger dish of water (is this a ban-marie???) so I did that too.
And cooked for 1 hr 45 rather than the 2 hrs as it looked quite brown on the top.

It made a thick cake type rice pudding which was brilliant cold as finger food for DS.  Nana and I enjoyed it too and some of it I dolloped into a saucepan and added a bit of milk to make it thinner - very yummy!
Of course the mascarpone wasn't good for Nana and I with it being SO high in fat but I'd already opened the tub (to give DS a big dollop as finger food) and it has to be used within the day so I thought I might as well boost DS's dairy intake with it, which was the whole point of making rice pudding in the first place as he takes little milk.

If you're stuck at home during the am or pm nap etc it is quite a good recipe to make as it only takes a few mins to get it into the oven and then you can put the oven timer on and get on with the other stuff without having to stand stirring a pot of rice.

[firsttimemummy]

I assume it was nice? Mascarpone would make it tasty - sadly, though, I am dairy-free just now so will have to wait a bit to try that version!

[creations]

Maybe you could try it with the dairy free cream that some shops sell to make it more creamy?
You don't want to be eating this version too often anyway with the amount of calories in the mascarpone.  Not unless you are stick thin and looking to gain a few pounds

I didn't realise when I bought the mascarpone that it only keeps one day (!) as I thought it would be a good alternative to yogurt for DS as yogurt is too acidic for his reflux but he needs the dairy.  I'm trying ricotta next as there's 3 days on that

[firsttimemummy]

Maybe you could try it with the dairy free cream that some shops sell to make it more creamy?

oat milk actually makes it quite creamy

Not unless you are stick thin and looking to gain a few pounds

actually at the moment I am ... but because I am breastfeeding and dairy-free ... I am going to be soooo fat once I stop feeding Oliver and can eat dairy

[Lemonthyme]

Sorry, only just seen this thread.  Yes pudding rice contains bacillus cereus too.  You can't tell if it's a problem by look or smell.  It forms a flavourless toxin in the food which causes severe and very quick (1-2 hours after eating) projectile vomiting.  You can keep and reheat rice but you have to be VERY careful about cooling it quickly reheating quickly; so I wouldn't.

You can't get rid of this toxin by reheating either; at least not in a domestic oven when you reheat with liquid.  You also won't get rid of the bacterium when you cook it in the first place because it forms spores which are really heat resistant.

So, in summary, I really wouldn't.  I'm probably being over cautious because I work as a food scientist but my BIL is a liver specialist consultant and had a fit and healthy 20 something woman die because of complications due to the effects of bacillus cereus food poisoning.

I just make rice pudding to order and I agree it's difficult to make in small amounts so that's why I make it in a slightly strange way:

http://mamacook.blogspot.com/2011/08/rice-pudding-for-babies-and-toddlers.html

[firsttimemummy]

... so is it okay to eat cold then next day?

Scary about the 20-something dying

[Lemonthyme]

Yeah, as I said, it's scary but it's rare.

Well I'll give you all the facts.  This is from memory so please excuse me if I get some of the figures wrong.

I think it can produce toxin between 10 degrees and 50 degrees C.  When rice is dry it's just dormant so it's no issue but as soon as you start to get it wet, there's a risk.  The biggest risk though is that it's not killed by the cooking process and other bacteria are.  I think you need to cook it at 121 degrees for 10 mins or so from memory(!)  and bear in mind even if your oven is at 200oC, the rice will be below 100 because it's in a liquid.

So, once you've cooked it, as it cools, the longer it spends between around 50-10oC, the bigger risk there is.  So if you are going to reheat it or serve it cold (and I don't because I'm risk averse), cool it as quickly as you can.  With normal long grain rice, I'd do this by running it under a cold water tap but with pudding rice if you've made it in a pan, I'd spread it out thinly on a tray and chill as soon as cool enough to do so putting it in a tub once cold.  With baked rice pudding it's much harder and the centre of it would stay hot for quite a long time so I wouldn't recommend it.

Make sure your fridge is below around 5oC ideally.

Then if you did chose to reheat, you need to do it quickly to again minimise the time it spends in that temperature zone.  The worst thing to do would be to take a big dish of baked rice pudding and put it in a cold oven which slowly comes up to temperature and slowly reheats.

So in summary, if you are going to eat cold or reheat, do it very quickly but the best thing to do is to make and eat fresh as that's the lowest risk thing to do.

I didn't want to scare you with the death thing, it would be very rare to die of this (I had b. cereus food poisoning in India before I learned about food safety.  It made me feel horrible and weak but I was ok.)  You've probably had it if you've ever had a dodgy Chinese or Indian takeaway then been sick an hour or two later.  That all said, with small people I'd rather not take the risk!