Author Topic: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?  (Read 4600 times)

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Offline sdaeffler

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EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« on: September 16, 2011, 04:36:32 am »
I'm a little confused... I also have a 7 month old who I'm trying to get on the EASY schedule so he will sleep through the night, but the book seems to have conflicting information about feeding schedules.  (Referencing pages 34 and 96 of "The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems)

The EASY schedule is a 4 hour one with feeds at 7, 11, 3, and 7.  (page 34)

I'm feeding him solids; the schedule for a 7 month old (on page 96) looks different for the "E" times and has them eating much more often than every 4 hours: 7 (liquid) 8:30 (solid) 11 (liquid) 12:30 (solid) 3 (liquid) 5:30 (solid) 7:30 (liquid).

Why the conflicting info, and what should I be doing?  I'm desperate!!!  My little man wakes up at 12:30am, 2:30am, 4:30am almost every night and SCREAMS until I give him the breast.  I'm on day 3 of EASY with no changes in his behavior and am following the book exactly.  Maybe I'm following the wrong feeding schedule?    This is what our schedule has looked like for the past few days:

7am - Wake up, nurse then feed 2oz solids
9am - 1.5hr nap
11pm - Eat (2oz solids followed by breastfeeding)
1pm - 1.5hr nap
3pm - Eat (2oz solids followed by breastfeeding)
7pm - Nurse, bath, story
8pm - He's usually asleep
11pm - Dreamfeed

Please help.  I'm very tired!

Offline deckchariot

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #1 on: September 16, 2011, 14:10:20 pm »
the E times are meant to be milk feeds as milk is the primary source of nutrition til your bub is a year.  The solids feeding times are really part of the A in EASY at this age.  Most bubs do better with having solids one hour after milk so that they don't fill up on solids and reduce their milk intake.

So looking at your EASY, I'd do the milk feeds at 7, 11, 3, and 7, but then wait an hour after each of those before offering solids (as part of your A time).  It's not the solids that will sustain him through the night, but the milk feeds.  My guess is that he's not taking enough milk in the day because he's eating solids first, so he's making up for the milk feeds at night.

Michelle




Offline ~Sara~

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #2 on: September 16, 2011, 15:11:10 pm »
I agree with Michelle 100% :)

Also, as LOs get older, they start spacing their feeds further apart than just 4h.  I'm thinking your LO is needing more A time and therefore might start spacing out his feeds, too.

Is your LO having a nap between nap #2 and bedtime?  That might be causing the night wakings, being overtired.
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Offline sdaeffler

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #3 on: September 16, 2011, 17:53:05 pm »
THANK YOU!  That certainly clarifies things regarding the "E"... I had it all wrong, you ladies are wonderful.

He is not taking the optional catnap between 5-6, just the two 1 1/2 hr naps during the day.  I tried (only 1 time) to get him down for a third nap but he fought me on it.  I will try it again for the next few days - good idea. 

I'm starting to get the hang of PU / PD and see tiny improvements with each nap / bed time but he still keeps looking for my breast every time I pick him up and he cries when I don't oblige.  I keep reassuring myself that it's HABIT and that he's not hungry or thirsty.  I'm correct...... right?

Offline deckchariot

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #4 on: September 16, 2011, 18:40:18 pm »
at his age, he probably doesn't distinguish between hunger and thirst.  I'd say if it's less than 3.5 - 4 hrs since his last feed, he's probably not hungry.  Has he been used to bfing to sleep?  If so, that's why he's going for your breast every time.
Michelle




Offline *Ali*

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #5 on: September 16, 2011, 23:00:08 pm »
As pps say the E is just milk. The 4hr EASY described is most appropriate for a LO around 4mo when they will be awake for 2hrs then asleep for 2hrs (roughly). As LOs get older they will be awake for longer and so will ideally be asleep at that 4hr point. That's when you need to get creative with the timings of milk feeds and solids.
It's great you're still getting good naps from him but at 7mo most LOs would be awake for nearer to 3hrs before going down for a nap. I would aim to increase your A times gradually to nearer to 3hrs so that you can make it to BT without having that very long A time after his second nap. It would also mean you have more time to fit in the solids. He is probably OT at BT and that could be contributing to him waking so often at night. It is probably just habit why he wants to BF when he wakes at night.
Make sure you are offering water with each solids meal to stave off constipation and quench his thrist.
HTH.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline sdaeffler

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #6 on: September 18, 2011, 15:16:11 pm »
YES - I am guilty of co-sleeping and having to nurse him back to sleep several times a night.  I wish I'd had the Baby Whisperer book ahead of time, I had no idea what bad habits I was creating.  It's been about 2 weeks since I stopped co-sleeping and started observing and implementing a schedule, and about 4 days since I started PU/PD. 

I'm definitely seeing a lot of progress.  Instead of him waking up 3-5 times a night, last night he woke up only twice!  (I know you're probably saying, "Only??!!" but this is huge for us).  He fell asleep at 9pm, did a dreamfeeed at 11pm.  First wake-up was at 1:45am and it took only 8 minutes of PU/PD to get him back off to sleep.  Second wake up was at 3:30am and I did PU/PD for 40 minutes before giving in and nursing him.  I thought he might be wanting to nurse out of habit but he fully drained both breasts before nodding off, and I put him in his crib before he was fully asleep. 
Is the 4am feed out of habit or true hunger do you think?  He wakens at that time almost every night and it's the hardest PU/PD of the night so I usually give in. 

I will adjust the EASY routine to accommodate for 3 hours of "A".  He wakes up at 7am every day - so his first nap should be at 10?


Offline *Ali*

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #7 on: September 18, 2011, 21:01:10 pm »
I think it can become learned hunger. So by that I mean he is used to eating at that time so he is hungry. But that is not to say his body would not be able to go 12hrs without eating if he got used to doing it. It's like if you got used to eating in the middle of the night your body would expect it and you would feel hungry at that time even though you're perfectly capable of going all night without eating.
I think if you were to persist with the pupd and get him back to sleep without feeding a couple nights he would stop being hungry at night. If you;re going to give in and nurse him it's best not to try the pupd at all for that NW since it will confuse him as to why you made him cry so long before giving him what he wanted all along.
If he wakes at the same time each night you could try wake to sleep about 3am to stop him waking.
Ideally with a 3hr A time you do want to work towards a nap at 10am but if he is used to doing a much shorter A time until now make sure you increase it slowly, say 10-15mins every 3 days, to avoid OT.
And FWIW I did BW with DS1 (21mo) and I'm still guilty of creating bad habits with DS2 (5wo) so don't blame yourself for getting into bad habits. You didn't even know!
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #8 on: September 18, 2011, 21:12:14 pm »
I wish I'd had the Baby Whisperer book ahead of time
Just jumping in to say I recently got the BW toddler book (my DS has recently turned 8 months and is not yet a 'toddler') and realised that this book starts at around the 8 months mark (although of course they all become 'toddlers' in their own time which Tracy says in the book).  You obviously have your hands full just at the moment, but you might want to order a copy so it's to hand for when you're ready to start reading it so you can get a head start on it - you know?  Although DS is not yet crawling never mind toddling, there are certainly things in the first chapter which are already useful and although i haven't much yet I am already starting to feel more able and confident with what is to come over the next months.

Your BT is pretty late.  I give the last milk feed at 6.30 (not a full 4 hrs since the previous E) and DS is asleep between 6.45 an 7pm.  An earlier BT could help avoid the OT prior to BT (and if he misses the CN it could go a little earlier even).

He wakes up at 7am every day - so his first nap should be at 10?
Yes, but you likely need to work your way up to that in increments if he is used to napping earlier.  It's too much to just suddenly increase an A by a whole hour.

Also (as you gradually move the nap to 10am) depending how long you get for that nap it will start to move the next E time, a 1.5hr nap moves the E on to 11.30, a 2 hr nap moves the E on to noon.  We've just gone through this and the 11am milk feed was dropped quite naturally so most days now he doesn't have it.  For a while I continued to offer it when he woke at noon but he didn't take much.  It has a knock on effect so the next E will also move on too (to keep to 4 hrly feeds) but you also need to fit that around the pm nap and then the BT feed won't be 4 hrs later but that's ok because it's BT.  Hope that makes sense.

PS.  I see Ali already answered you about the A time, but I'm going to go ahead and post this anyway x


Offline *Ali*

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #9 on: September 18, 2011, 21:20:16 pm »
When we got on to 3hr A time followed by a 2hr nap I just did milk feeds straight after the 1st nap and a little before the 2nd nap so they were more like, 7, 12, 3 and 7. We did solids around 8, 1 and 5. When they're eating solids in between it doesn't matter so much whether the milk is 4hrs apart. That 3pm milk feed was the first to go around 12mo and the 12noon feed just got later until he was on one nap and the middle feed was just after the nap. He was of course having solids snacks by then too.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline sdaeffler

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #10 on: September 20, 2011, 15:21:25 pm »
Thank you for the suggestion on the BW Toddler book-just added it to my Amazon shopping cart.

I've been gradually increasing the A time and putting him down when he starts to show signs of being tired rather than following a specific time schedule (but still following the EASY routine).  The great thing is he seems to be eating more, and more effectively (he's been a little underweight thus far).  Also, he's putting himself to sleep with very little assistance from me.  I haven't had to do PU/PD in a couple of days for naps or bedtime.  If he cries, I need only to place my hand on his back for a few moments to calm him down or get him to sleep.  This is huge and I'm very happy with the progress.

The bad news is he is waking more than ever at night!  The past two nights, he woke up at 12:30am and EVERY hour after that until 4:30am.  I've been giving him a nursing at those 4:30am wake ups the past couple of nights just to get him to go back to sleep for a few hours and it seems to work - he will then go back to sleep without waking until 7am.  So last night, he was up 3 times between 12:30 and 1:30 but went back to sleep immediately after I placed my hand on his back.  Then he woke up again at 2:30.  Again at 3:30.  And again at 4:30.  I don't get it!!!???  What am I doing wrong?  I'm so happy that his eating and getting off to sleep has improved significantly, but I don't understand why he is waking up so much at night.  I considered the possibility of these things:

Wet diaper - last night I changed him after his 10:30 dreamfeed and his 4:30am feed.  His diapers do get pretty wet, but that's never seemed to bother him in the past.  I typically load him up with butt paste and let him go all night without a change.

Teething - He got 2 bottom teeth a month and a half ago.  I wonder if he has teeth coming in but he's not really showing symptoms.  I can't see or feel any new ones coming through and he isn't at all fussy during the day so I don't think teething is the issue.

Temperature - I thought maybe he was too cold so I put him in warmer PJ's last night.  No change.  I think the temp in his nursery is just right. 

Fever - he doesn't have one. 

What could it be????

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #11 on: September 20, 2011, 15:37:44 pm »
Are you still doing the dreamfeed, and then he wakes at 12:30 and every hour after that?
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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #12 on: September 20, 2011, 15:48:23 pm »
Yes, and yes... still doing dreamfeed at 10:30.

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #13 on: September 20, 2011, 15:52:31 pm »
I wonder if the timing of the DF is disrupting his sleep. What if you tried moving it up to 10 and see if that helps.  Also, I'd make sure his last A time isn't too long and that he's not overtired.

If neither of those things is an issue, wake to sleep might be a good option if the waking is habitual and not hunger-, routine-, or prop-related.
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Offline sdaeffler

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #14 on: September 20, 2011, 16:41:11 pm »
I started doing the DF out of a bottle (instead of BF) so he doesn't seem to wake or even open his eyes during it, but I will move it down to 10pm, or should I try removing it altogether? 

I will likely post this in the sleep section, too since it's now more of a sleep issue.  You ladies have been so helpful, and without you I would not have the right time schedule - I was way off!

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #15 on: September 20, 2011, 16:59:04 pm »
I'd try the 10pm feed first before dropping it altogether.  Give it a few days to see if it makes a difference.  Let us know when you have a new thread up and running so we can pop over and take a look, too :)
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Offline sdaeffler

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #16 on: September 20, 2011, 17:01:00 pm »
I will try doing that - thank you again for the feedback.  I just posted in the sleep section (under NW).

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #17 on: September 21, 2011, 12:38:22 pm »
went back to sleep immediately after I placed my hand on his back.  Then he woke up again at 2:30.  Again at 3:30.  And again at 4:30.  I don't get it!!!???
I know you've started another thread, but just in case I don't get a chance to go over to the sleep board...
Do you think that your hand on his back has become a prop?  With him waking so frequently and falling back to sleep so easily once your hand is there it sounds like he might be dependent on it and when it is not there he is unable to transition through to the next sleep cycle?  Just a thought.


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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #18 on: September 21, 2011, 14:01:42 pm »
I've thought that might be the case, too.  I dropped the dreamfeed last night because I fell asleep after he did at 8pm.  He slept through til 1am, but then awake again at 4:30 and 5:30.  So a little better but not awesome.  He had a mild fever though (99.6) so I'm starting to wonder if he might be teething?  His gums don't appear swollen and he isn't showing any signs of teething but it might be the case, unless he is fighting a cold or something?

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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #19 on: September 21, 2011, 14:36:18 pm »
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Re: EASY schedule w/ solids - Conflicting Info?
« Reply #20 on: September 21, 2011, 17:42:15 pm »
Hi, locking this thread to keep all sleep help and advice on the NWs thread  :)