15mo, never spent whole night in his cot. Can someone help please?

[bluebell10]

Hi, I'm new here but a friend recommended this site and thought one of you might be able to offer me some guidance?

My 15mo son still hasn't slept the whole night in his cot.  His Daddy and I have decided that it's time we had our bed back to ourselves so I need to have a plan in place to make this happen.

His evening goes like this -

6.45pm bath
7pm bottle of milk (was breastfed until 13 mo, when he self weaned)
He then falls asleep on our bed lying next to me or both of us, we carry him through to his room and lay him in his cot, he's generally peacefully there until around midnight.  He then wakes us (crying, increasing until we show up) and is lifted out of his cot and into bed with us.  He will then sleep (mostly sound) until 7am ish.

He uses a dummy but doesn't have any other comforter (other than my index finger, rubbed over his nose....)!

I've tried to re settle him when he wakes but he will become hysterical until we bring him into bed with us.  I know we've taught him that this is how it goes, but we're commited to re teaching him and at last giving him the skills he needs to get to sleep without us.

Many, many thanks for reading. I hope someone can offer me some advice.

[sianie]

Hi there, welcome to BW! 

Are you familiar with Tracy's books? It would be really useful for you to read through the sleep section in either 'The Secrets of the Baby Whisperer' or 'The Baby Whisperer Solves All Your Problems', this will help you to understand Tracy's views on teaching independent sleep.

From what you've said, it does sound like your LO is totally 'prop' dependent (i.e. falling asleep in your bed then when he wakes he doesn't know where he is as it's not the place he fell asleep hence the NW wanting to be taken back into your bed). Although it is harder teaching an older LO independent sleep, it can be done!

What time does he nap? How long for? Does he sleep in his cot for naps?

The key to any sleep training is to be consistent & stick at it, the first few nights will be tough & there will be tears but it will pay off when your LO is able to put himself to sleep in his own bed.

It would be useful if you could post his whole routine i.e. time he wakes up in the AM/ nap times & lengths etc.

I'm also attaching a couple of link for you to read through which should be helpful:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63896.0

Does this help?

[bluebell10]

Firstly, thank you so much for replying. This certainly helps.

I've just finished reading 'The BW solves all of your problems' and it really fits in with our philosophy, I guess we just don't know where to start....

I completed the quiz in the link you supplied and my son seems to be Textbook with a lot of Angel.

He's a happy little boy and very affectionate, life with him would be perfect if we hadn't accidently parented him into this situation.

Although we have a bad routine, it is pretty much consistent.

Wakes 7am ish (in our bed)
Breakfast 7.15pm ish
Leaves home with me (i'm self employed and can keep him with me) 9am
snack about 10am (sometimes a 20 min nap in the car, but these days more often not)
12.30pm ish lunch. 1pm nap, and I know that this is dreadful but usually on my knee and then transferred onto sofa while I do some work). 
He wakes naturally around 2.45pm-3pm, always happy, has a snack.
We have dinner at 5.30pm, then bath 6.45pm.

Just to add, we take full responsibility for this problem.  When he was tiny he had terrible reflux and was admitted to hospital, we had several scary choking type incidents while he was in his moses bascket and I guess from there we just couldn't let him out of our sight....  We're totally soft with sleep, although we have set limits with behaviour and rarely have any problems with him other than this.

I hope this helps and that you might be able to guide me through this?

Thank you.

[Truly Blessed]

Hiya Honey,

Just happened to pop onto forum and found you  . Following along and hope to be of some help. See you Tuesday.x.

[sianie]

As a fellow Mum of a refluxer I totally get where you're at with your LO's sleep but don't beat yourself up!

I assume his reflux is now under control? Is he still on meds?

I think part of the problem might well be his daytime sleep....most LO's your DS's age are on 1 nap a day or just about to transition to 1 nap...this could be throwing his sleep off a bit too.

I think the main think to start working on first is getting him to sleep in his cot (for naps too!)....& also trying to get a more consistent routine which will help him to sleep better.

I would probably start by working on doing a good wind-down with him before sleeps so that he is as calm & relaxed as possible (do this in his room so he gets used to it)....when he is sleepy, but not asleep put him into his cot....if he stays calm or just 'mantra' cries then leave the room & wait for him to try to self settle. If his cries start to escalate/become more distressed then go back in & use your voice to re-assure him (try not to take him out of his cot unless completely necessary). You can try to ssh/pat &/or PD to try to get him to settle, if this doesn't work then GW (Gradual Withdrawal) would be the most appropriate sleep training method to use.....I would sit in a chair or on the floor next to his cot (I would sit with your back to him as the idea is to keep interaction to a minimum so that he doesn't get OS), use a sleepy phrase to re-assure him that he's ok & that you are there for him. He will cry a lot to start with & it'll be hard for you but as you are staying in the room with him it's not the same as leaving him to 'cry it out'.

It might well take a few nights to see some improvements but stick at it & things will get better! 

I hope that this helps you a bit?

[bluebell10]

Hi SammysMammy and Sianie,

He isn't on any meds now and his reflux has gone (thankfully).

He generally only has one nap a day, and getting him to sleep hasn't been a problem, it's more of where he sleeps that I'm having problems with.

I've tried to put him in his cot awake (for naps and at bedtime) but he becomes hysterical.  I have always crumbled and lifted him out to be comforted by me.

He is always asleep by 7.30pm and stays asleep until the midnight ish wake up and then comes into our bed where he wont stir unitl 7am ish.  I don't think he has sleep issues more SA??? As SammysMammy has witnessed, he doesn't like to be parted from his Mammy, at all... But this 24/7 attatchment is wearing me out.

I'll try the methods you suggest, I need to toughen up and not be such a pushover.  After reading the book I'm more than aware he is on his way to household domination and I'm being manipulated by my little chap!!  Arghhh, why do I feel I can't let him cry??? It's not going to physcologically scar him right?? Ha ha, I'm so soft....!

[Truly Blessed]

Hiya Hon 

You're probably no softer than the rest of us. It is a really hard thing to hear your most precious LO cry  . What really helps me is to remind myself that Sam's only way of communicating is to cry. So if Ted could speak already he wouldn't necessarily be crying the whole time he'd be cleverly trying to negotiate his way out of the situation (that's a whole other joy which awaits us LOL  ) So just bear that in mind. It is also invaluable to recognise his different cries. That can take some time, but at this stage you may already know them all! Having said that by the time they're Ted's age they are very clever about being able to make it sound like the end of the world in order to get the result they want. With Sam I have found that if he is sounding incredibly upset and I go into the nursery but...he stops very quickly as I go in, then he is usually working it so to speak. Ted is going to be genuinely very upset at first that is inevitable unfortunately, while he becomes more comfortable and is able to self settle. But as you can stay with him at first, you don't have to feel guilty. And when you start to leave him he will learn that when Mammy says she'll be back if he really needs her that it's true.

It isn't easy Hon, but it is so worth it. BW sleep training with Sam changed my life, quite literally. I was completely exhausted, getting up 5 times a night and feeding him back to sleep. Often as soon as I put him down in his cot he would immediately wake and start crying...and so would I  . Just 5 days in, he could self settle and after 8 days he was sleeping 11 hours through the night  .

You can do it and so can Ted 

(X)

[sianie]

I think the issue you have is a combination of SA & sleeping in your bed being a prop.

Unfortunately, you're not going to be able to sleep train without him crying BUT the difference between BW & other sleep training methods is that you don't leave your LO to CC or CIO. You do need to mentally prepare yourself for the tears as to start with he won't understand what's going on as you are changing the way he has learnt to go to sleep. The key is to stick at it 'tho as if you give in & go back to bringing him back into your bed etc then you are just teaching him that if he cries for long enough you will give in & he'll get what he wants. I definitely think GW is the right way to go with your LO.

Good luck! 

[bluebell10]

Thanks Guys,

My husband and I have had a good talk about this and have decided to start from tomorrow night when we are both in and able to commit to this together.

Your reference to him 'talking his way out of the situation' made us laugh... that's exactly what he's doing.  I'm sure (at least hopeful) that I wouldn't let a 5 yr old win a debate with me so I'll keep that analagy in mind when he starts!

You'll see me 9am on Tuesday... would you mind bringing some pro plus??? Ha ha!

Thanks x