Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #18

[*Kara*]

Alexandra was in bed sleeping at 710 YAY!  DH is not working tomorrow so we will get to see when she naturally wakes now   She did 11 hrs 10 mins last night but was woken up by DH (cause we all know that men cannot be quiet!)..

[lily528]

thanks for the advice guys...i kept her up til 6:45 pm after the 1 hr nap...that was 5 hrs 20 mins A she had a NW last night I was like nooooooo!  first time in weeks...what do you think caused that?  maybe UT, too early of a BT with the late start to the morning at 8:20? I gues I was scared to push her too much but I should have i think...do you think that is what cause the NW?  i definitely don't want anymore of those since i waited soooo long for her to sttn...that was devastating...then she was up for the day at 6am..blah...so based on all your advice stick to my 12pm nap time right?  eesh that's a 6 hr A...hope she does ok...it's only 9:15 here lol   she is spirited so zacsmumme i hope you are right...I choose 12 because she is GENERALLY up around 6:15-6:30...I am really looking to get into a later BT around 7-7:30 so the later I make the nap the easier that will be to accomplish I think...my goal is to get a 7-7 night...wouldn't that be nice? lol or 7:30-7 whatever but closer to a 7 a.m. wake up...so the plan is to stick with a 12pm nap...PRAY it becomes longer than a stinkin hour!  ugh and hope to make it to a later BT.

do you all think that is reasonable?  or should i make the nap a bit earlier?  like 11:30 maybe?  what is a good A time to have before bed? if I do 11:30 and get the 1 1/2 hrs i WAS getting that would bring me to 1...trying for a 7-7:30 BT would 6-6.5 hr A before bed...would be a 5.5 hr A from wake up...does the 30 mins earlier rather than doing 12 make all that much difference?  anyone with a schedule suggestion to help me achieve what I am hoping for?  longer nap later bed time later WU...or are these pipe dreams? 

[lily528]

omg 30 mins!  sigh i tried to AP back to sleep with what was left of her bottle but she didn't want it so i put her back in her crib and walked out...sigh not sounding like she is too happy though so i guess this is it!  what now?  try for a CN?  or just push her to BT...if no CN should I do EBT or try to get out of her as much as I can?  I definitely don't want NW's again...sigh I am in tears as I write this...I have never had this much trouble with my son...I feel so useless...this is just ridiculous


she actually quieted down rather quickly and seemed to have slept another 30 mins..was a bit restless she moved around a lot but appeared to be sleeping for most of it i think...then woke up happy and calling mama...so maybe I CAN push to the 7-7:30 BT? or on a restless barely hr nap should i do EBT?

[*Kara*]

30 min naps are a huge indicator of OT hun... I would pull that nap back to 1145 tomorrow and see what happens   I have a wake up between 6-630 (generally 620)... I try to have her down between 1130-1145am.  She will sleep 2-2.5 hrs generally and goes down without any fuss. I make sure that she has a snack and a big bottle to get her through her nap - then do the rest of her lunch when she wakes up.  I find the nice warm bottle really helps as part of her winddown... gets her nice and sleepy

This seems to be our new EASY

620am - wake and big bottle
830 - breakfast
1120 - fruit portion of her lunch (about 2 ozs home made)
1125 - big bottle
1130 - nap
2/215 - wake from nap
230 - lunch (4 ozs veggies + finger foods)
530 - dinner
630 - bath
645 - big bottle
7pm - BT/sleeping

[amigirl]

hi ladies, i'm new here, but have been lurking a while, trying to figure out this 2:1 transition!  it's been really rough.  my LO (just over 11 mo) has never taken very long naps - even when we were on 2 naps a day, he would take a 1.5 hr am (on a good day) and a 30-40 min pm nap, and sleep 11-11.5 hr at night.  when we were on 3 naps a day, he rarely slept longer than 33-50 min per nap.  but he was good at sttn.  he had been fighting his pm nap for over a month - we'd have to rock or nurse him to sleep (and then wake him or he'd keep sleeping!), or he would play or cry for the entire hour, and he got more and more OT b/c his first nap never lengthened. we've finally decided to bite the bullet and transition to 1 nap by pushing his one nap back.

it's been almost a week, and his 1 nap is only 40-50 min long, and he's started NW, eating, then sometimes going back to sleep for another hour or so.  this completely throws off his WU time - anywhere between 5am and 6:50am!  (he's always been an EW, with an EBT)  we've been using a 4hr 45min A time, and today, he didn't fall asleep for an hour!  and then woke up after 40 min    yesterday, he was falling asleep at the bottle so we put him down after 3.5 hr A time, and he slept for just 70 min - but then had to stay awake for 6 hr before an EBT.  is he just completely OT?  he's pretty textbook (aside from never having napped very long), and handles OT okay, though sometimes his night sleep does start to get more restless.  the last few nights have been mostly okay though, so I can't even tell anymore if he's OT!  he's sleeping about 30 min less every day than he did 2 months ago, before his nap#2 fighting started and everything fell to pieces.

any advice?  should we shorten the morning A time?  go with a set nap, even though his WU is all over the map, b/c he now sometimes falls back to sleep after EW/NW?  some other option?  thanks for the help!

eta: he's clearly OT today, after a single 40min nap today, he's now having a hard time falling asleep at bedtime.  he'll get *maybe* 12 hr sleep total today (if he falls asleep soon!), and he really needs 13.5.  also, he's been sleeping *on average* 30 min less per day than he used to, but his sleep is fluctuating wildly now, b/c he's going through cycles of OT and catching up - anywhere from 12 to just over 14 hr per day.  how do i get out of this?   

[*Kara*]

Hi Amigirl!  Welcome to the funtastic 2-1

Your DS sounds much like my DD except that she is a good napper - has been since about 6 months (I would rather not talk about it before that age though - LOL!).

Have you ever used set naps before?  If so, how did he do with it?  My DD is textbook for the most part as well and I have found that set naps are best for her with dropping naps... I did it with the 3-2 and now with the 2-1. 

Regardless of wake time, you stick to a set nap time within a 15 min window before/after.  If baby sleeps in, push it out 15 mins max, if they wake early, you can bring it forward 15 mins but no more.  This will reset baby's body clock.  Some babies adjust quite quickly (mine takes about a week, two at most), some take up to 3-4 weeks. 

I am pushing DD to this schedule:

wake around 615-630am
nap around 1130/1145 - 2/215pm
BT 7pm.

Given that your DS is falling asleep while eating at 3.5 hrs.. I would venture that he is OT at this point... maybe just follow his lead for a few days even if it means later bedtimes to let him nap a bit longer in the PM... get rid of that OT then stick to a set nap for a week and see where it gets you

[amigirl]

thanks Kara!  I will try that.  He put himself on a set nap sometime after we went to 2 naps - his first nap was always right around 9, regardless of when he woke up (between 5-5:30).  I finally realized that it didn't matter if i put him down early if he woke up early - he still wouldn't fall asleep until 9! 

I think I'll try to get him on a 10:45am nap, and try that for a while.  I'm just afraid if he only sleeps for 40 min, he's up by 11:30, and then has to make it all the way to 5:30 - I really don't want to put him down earlier than 5:30!  he used to have a 6pm bedtime, but it's been 5:30 all week because his naps have been so short. 

hrm, actually - how long of an A time should I give him?  I think part of our problem is that 4hr 45min is too long - it used to be 4hr, and i think the big jump is too sudden, and that's why his naps are so short now.  should i set the nap with a shorter A time, and slowly push it back?  or just pick what I want it to be (5hr?), and hope he figures it out quickly? 

[*Kara*]

If he naps less than 90 mins, he will need much less A time before taking another nap... since he is shortnapping and night waking, i would do a longer morning nap and a catnap in the early evening to get him to a reasonable BT.

so, if he wakes before 6am, try to get him to 10:30/11am before putting him down for a nap - let him sleep as long as he likes.  If he does his typical nap of less than an hour, aim for 3.5 hrs A time before the CN... you really want to let him CN at least 30 mins before waking him... a 30 min CN will generally give you 2-2.5 hrs more A time before putting down for the night. If he does a really short morning nap (like an hour), you might be able to squeeze a 45-1hr CN in!

Example

Wakes at 530am
Down for AM nap at 1030am
Assuming an hour nap, he wakes at 1130am
Try to get him to CN around 230/3pm...  If you can get him down before 315, let him nap for an hour and wake by 415.

This should get him to at least 730pm for BT.  A few days of this should get rid of the OT and should push his wake time out to at least 6am.

He may be super tired after a couple of days of this... he might want a morning nap earlier but don't give in!  An early AM nap will reinforce a crazy early wake time

[ZacsMumme]

Gross, we have had a wondeful week of 2.5-3hr naps and then today with his Bday BBQ tea Zac short naps and wakes screaming the house down...siiiiiiiigggghhhhhh. Luckily he coped okay and I got him down early. Damn teeth ruining his bday On the upside we now have 4 cut teeth (that last one still looks like it has a touch to go though)

I wont even bother to post his day...its not worth it!

Hi Amigirl

[lily528]

kara-  sigh OT huh?  did i push too much?  I knew it was a BIG A but I was doing like everyone suggested and just stuck with my time regardless of when she woke up....she went to sleep at 6:45 last night and sttn til 6:15 this morning...she is in a great mood so far..going to do breakfast soon...so clearly 12pm is too late for her then?  maybe I SHOULD just do 11:30?  when we were doing a 4 hr 45 min A back a week or so ago I was getting 1hr 30 min nap...which I wanted to be longer and now would kill to have that back but I want to stick to a set time to set her body clock...just have to find the right one...if I do 11:30 that would be a 5 hr 15 min A for today...yesterday's 12pm nap was a 6 hr A...which resulted in a very OT nap bit was also after a bit of a broken night sleep with a NW we haven't had in a long while...since she did a good 12 hr sttn last night maybe today will go better? 

so kara maybe I will try your schedule for the next few days and hope for the best...i skimmed through healthy sleep habbits book that I have and he is really big on EBT...like 5:30!  so I will ask in advance if I get a crummy nap i should not try for a  CN but move up the BT?  that is what I am thinking because our days of CN coincidentally came with NW's and I think that may be related...but still fearful of EBT causing EW's lol

i also just want to say to you girls...I am soooo very thankful for you all....I know I post A LOT probably more than anyone on here...and you have always been kind and understanding and incdredibly helpful and supportive...would be lost without  you!!!! xoxo

[lily528]

down for nap at 11:30....fingers crossed!!!!!!!!!!!!


edit:   woke at 40 mins...let out a cry sat up..fussed and back to sleep within 5 mins...OT?!  I dunno just hope she keeps sleeping a long while :/

[lily528]

ok so she did another 30 mins...so 1 hr 10 mins total (with a brief cry out and fuss for 5 mins at the 40 min mark)

so how do i help encourage this nap to get longer...I will keep it at 11:30 from here on in...is it best to do an EBT at like 6 (with a short nap like 1 hr 10 mins?) or should I push to the set BT of 7pm?  FYI her wake up time was 12:45 so EBT at 6 would be a 5hr 15 minA and 7pm BT would be a 6 hr 15 min A...I want to do what I can to encourage her nap to get longer and longer...obviously...so which is the best route to go with BT until we get to that longer nap (IF we get there)

[clairebear79]

Melissa - EBT definitely.  I REALLY wouldn't push that BT when she has short napped as she is most likely already OT.  Been there done that & things will just get worse if you push her at both ends of the day.  The other option, if you can get it, is a short CN at 4pm ish of 15-30mins max & that will help her catch up on some OT & nudge BT out a touch.  

On days we had short naps like that we went out in the car & he would sometimes fall asleep only 1-2hrs after waking, he was that shattered.

We have seriously backtracked with O's A times ATM with him being poorly & severely OT.  Yesterday he went down after just 2.75hrs A in the AM & did 45min AM & 1.5hr PM naps, & it was the first night in weeks we didn't have OT NW's in the early part of the night.  So I trusted my instincts again today & we PD at 9.30am as yesterday & did 45min AM nap, but he was very clearly tired after a much shorter A than yesterday so he went down for his PM nap after just 3.25hrs.  Even after a 1.5hr nap he was still shaking his head.  He has got some serious catching up to do so for now I am not even thinking about pushing him.  It seems the shorter his A times are, the better he is sleeping, so I am going with it for now.

[*Kara*]

so kara maybe I will try your schedule for the next few days and hope for the best...i skimmed through healthy sleep habbits book that I have and he is really big on EBT...like 5:30

I totally wouldn't risk this one!  Even if you get a 12 hour night, you are still up at 530am - gross.  And Dr Weissbluth isn't the one who has to get up with Ava

I would keep her up as late as you can without pushing too far.. the first bit of disinterest in playing = bedtime ASAP.  You really don't want to put her down too early or you will get an early morning and the cycle of early naps and early bedtime continues... if she does okay with OT, I would push her.

Claire - poor O   It's so hard when they are not well.  Hope he feels better soon!

We lost our run of good 11+ hr nights   Teething has crept in and taken my poor wee monkey... I hate incisors... she was totally screaming at 1115pm last night... gave her pain meds and a little bottle to prevent an upset belly at midnight and we had a snuggle on and off until she finally went down for the rest of the night around 145am.  She was up for the day at 6am - screaming cause the Advil wore off   She was a trooper though and stayed up happily until 1115am!

[ZacsMumme]

EBT are great, if your LO responds well to them, as Kara said if you LO will only do a 12 hr night on a 5.30 bt then it could be gross.however, if they work well you can get a good night. Zac ent to bed at 6 pm (earliest I will pd) and caught up waking at 8 am and only 1 short teeth related nw. It really depends on your LO but Ido think it is worth a try, maybe not 5.30 though, that is very early!

Hugs Claire and Kara on poorly bubbas