Has the advice changed?

[anna*]

My SIL has started my little nephew on solids, he is 18 weeks old. He is (like Stan was) exceptionally big (98th centile), and I know she has had a frustrating time with BFing and feeling like he is never satisfied.

I'm just surprised because she is studying to be a nutritionist, which made me wonder if maybe the official advice on when to start solids has changed?

[Khalam's Mama]

Still 6mo in all the lit i read and the hv advice last week. I'm in the UK.

[Roseii]

With both my DDs I was just told by the health vis "babies are started on solids anywhere between 17 weeks and 8 months (helpful ) I started mine about the 6 month m.ark but both my SILs started all their 3 kids at 17 weeks ish

[~inbalance~]

I'm fairly certain that the WHO guidelines at least are still to wait until 6mos.  Perhaps she is just working on her mother's intuition?  I know that my head said "wait until 6mos" with T, but my frustration was telling me to do it sooner so that he would sleep.    Bad judgement, he didn't sleep!    When it came time to do it all again with F, same thing..... I *knew* it was supposed to be 6mos but I just kept thinking, well maybe it would make everything better if I did it sooner....   Next time, I'm waiting until 6mos!

[shivi]

Here they say no earlier than 4 mths, no later than 6mths...that's in my study lit from paeds at warsaw university.

We did 24 weeks with O and 26 with Emma. And she was always the better sleeper. Both were 97th for length born and by 3 mths (Oz) and 5mths (E) EBF 97th for weight as well...

S x

[clazzat]

I have been told that The guidelines have changed - it's back to being 16 weeks, which is what it was about 5 years ago. Tbh, I think the best advice is to go with what you think your lo is ready for which is what I have been told by the good health visitors.

[Khalam's Mama]

I checked the food standards agency website recently as I heard on the news there was some evidence it wasn't best to wait. I can't find any reference to this new research on the web. I know it was done at King's College Hospital, don't know if any one saw this too???

When you say "the guideline" Claire, to which are you referring? The WHO?

I am thinking the same thing at the moment Martina, that B is deperate to eat at 5mo and he might sleep through if we start. You have reaffirmed my belief  that I should wait as it will not be a magic cure for sleep depravation.

[Shdef]

After a study came out noting that the earlier different foods are introduced (and LOTS of diversity) the less likely allergy is and also the less picky your child will be. It basically stated that those late introductions of samey mushy food is making our children picky, especially towards fish and green vegetables.

4-6 months is the new rec here

[Khalam's Mama]

Was that the one at King's Steffi? Do you have a link?

[Shdef]

I read it in a German sociology magazine. The two countries compared where Germany and France (because with this issue, you could never compare Scotland with Turkey or somewhere like that, because of the different climate, but in this study the two countries had similar climate).

Basically, the Germans introduce food generally at six months, and only like one per week, and mostly pureed foods. Potato, carrot, apple, pear, beef, pasta, tomatoes and chicken is as adventurous as we go. no spice, low salt, low sugar. Tastes all the same, really 

The French introduce at four months, they let their babies nibble on chicory, duck, rooster in red whine sauce, garlic soup, asparagus, etc.

And the incidents of allergy, asthma and eczema in France are WAY lower than in Germany. Also, the kids are not as picky, and not as overweight or unhealthy, life expectancy is higher, too.

[Shiv52]

There is a big study going on in to allergy at Kings college at the minute and they are looking at the allergy recommendations and how weaning later hasn't led to a decrease.  But they are only looking at BF babies because of the open gut theory, not FF babies so their advice seems to be only related to babies who are EBF babies at the minute. 

Weaning is still set at 6 months here officially but it can depend on your HV/doctor as to what advice you get. The advice that has changed since I had M though is to make sure purees are short lived and they are on proper food by 1 year with no more purees.   So finger foods and table foods from very early on.  That is in relation to the increase in picky eaters and increase in texture issues.   

[clazzat]

Hmmm... I have been trying to find something to confirm what I was told when x was born, but I can't find anything about the uk guidelines.  I don't think that it was the who guidelines that the hv was talking about, but she definitely told me that now the recommendation was from 16 weeks as I remember laughing about the fact that it had gone back to what it used to be. I also remember not being surprised as I had heard something about it somewhere before she mentioned it to me.

The only thing I can find is this:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-12180052

Interesting that you mention moving on from purees quickly, shiv, as I also remember having a conversation with someone about how purees are not really suitable when weaning at 6 months as they were how you were supposed to introduce food to a 4-month-old.

[Khalam's Mama]

I found this http://www.eatstudy.co.uk/eat-study-info/ but it says to cont with the 6mo recommendation.

I am leaning to BLW. I wonder if there are any studies one that or if it is too new???

[Shiv52]

I find the 4 month thing hard to fathom.  I don't think R would have been ready for solids at all at that stage.  I hardly thought she was ready at 6 months whereas I started M at 5.5 months as she was very ready.  Is X ready do you think?

Interesting that you mention moving on from purees quickly, shiv, as I also remember having a conversation with someone about how purees are not really suitable when weaning at 6 months as they were how you were supposed to introduce food to a 4-month-old.

I think thats the thing.  they changed the age recommendation without linking it to the types of foods although I know in the weaning guide I got for M it suggested foods like beans on toast, mashed potato etc form 7-8 months so they have been recommending it but not that strongly.  At antenatal class for R, they mentioned weaning briefly and still said 6 months but also said finger foods from 6 months and no bottles by 1, just BFing or cups.  THey were the only changes I noticed.  

[Khalam's Mama]

I said to my Mum that B did not seem ready for solids at 4mo (not sitting well, not reaching, not mouthing things, strong tongue thrust etc) but 2 weeks later  and esp now at 5mo he is so ready. When K was born 2 yr ago the recs wre the same about bottles after 1.

[Fiver]

Haven't heard anything about recs changing to 4m.  Most 4mo aren't showing the major signs of readiness for weaning.  FWIW, we're doing BLW and it's great.  No, she's doesn't necessarily eat everything, but she gives it a go.  There's the old mantra of "food before one is for fun" and I'm trying to stick with that an not be stressed about how much she does or doesn't eat on each particular day.

[Shdef]

See, the advice now goes both ways. Some kids are not ready until eight months or so, some are very ready at 4.5 months.

This exactly at the 6 mo mark thing can't be right.

[~inbalance~]

I guess it all boils down to following YOUR baby! 

[shivi]

I have a friend here whose LO is late April born, so around 5 mths now and she has been PUSHING and pushing him with purees since he turned the magical 4 mths....and he is not one bit interested.

He's up every three hours in the night minimum (EBF and no routine) and she's convinced a few spoonfuls of jarred apples is gonna make a difference!!!
I went back to work at 4.5 mths after Oscar, also April born. He was guzzling 8 oz bottles of EBM every four hours but nowhere near ready for weaning...


I think here for sure the baby food companies are to blame to a certain extent - all the packaging says "from 4mths" for the single purees, simple soups, baby rice etc etc so people feel they're doing their child an injustice if they don't feed  OR they are so, so sleep-deprived feeding EBF babies round the clock with nobody helping them with routines etc etc and they feel less guilty giving some pureed carrots or apples than they would using formula even to get a break during the night for their DH to take over a feed or two....

S x

[Vicku]

Just cos you may find it interesting...
Here it is 4-6 months, no earlier than 4 mos. An interesting thing that they talk about here is that it depends on if you're BF or not, and when you're planning to BF until. The important thing being to ideally introduce food under the protection of breast milk. They believe that the breast milk protects the gut and helps to prevent reactions and allergies, so if you're planning to carry on BF then it's best to wait til around 6mos as the digestive system has matured more then BUT if you're planning to stop BF around 6 mos then they actually recommend introducing solids around 4 mos under the protection of the BM rather than wait til 6 mos and do it while on formula.
For formula fed babies it is said to be more important to wait til around 6 mos, but it can also be harder to hold off a baby til then as formula contains the same calories per onze while BM changes to become more nutritious as baby grows (they don't actually need more ozs) so a FF baby will "max out" their stomach capacity and may show signs of needing more food. So 4-6 mos depending on the baby and the feeding method here.

[Mashi]

Clare - I know the "study" you are talking about and I remember it as well.  I don't however remember where I read it to be able to find it.  But what I do remember is that it was leaning from the 4-6 month guideline which was in place when my DS was a baby and leaning more towards starting AT 4 months and not waiting until 6mo.

In regards to studying nutrition Anna is your SIL specializing in paediatric nutrition? Because I would say that unless she is really focusing on the younger stuff then it does not mean that she would know about recommendations, yk?   And I think that studying that stuff in general does not necessarily focus on what a current recommendation from the NHS is, rather than look at a more broad idea of it all...really, the one fact of when to start a baby on solids is a drop in the bucket in terms of what she would be covering in all of her classes, iyswim. 

[*Kara*]

Here in Canada, our official rec is 6 months, but our doctor okay'd it at our 4 month checkup.  Of course, I thought he was crazy and just said - Oh, okay then   I had full intentions of waiting until 6 months, but DD started really showing interest around 5 months... I gave her a very slow intro from 5 months 3 days.  Just a tsp of rice cereal once a day for a week, then increased to a tbsp... she got her first taste of peas just before she hit 6 months... I still don't push solids at 10 months.  She eats like a horse most days, but I certainly focus on her formula intake to ensure she gets all she needs, since her food isn't a complete variation yet.

FWIW - My SIL has 3 kids... first was just FF from birth (milk never came in)... he started solids at 5 months.  Second was combined BF and FF (low supply).. he started solids at 6 months.  Third was EBF until 10 months, then slowly intro'd to solids but still BF'd until 2.5 years old.  The third was BF'd the longest and intro'd the slowest... she has the worst allergies and is by far the most picky. 

[Shiv52]

Just cos you may find it interesting...
Here it is 4-6 months, no earlier than 4 mos. An interesting thing that they talk about here is that it depends on if you're BF or not, and when you're planning to BF until. The important thing being to ideally introduce food under the protection of breast milk. They believe that the breast milk protects the gut and helps to prevent reactions and allergies, so if you're planning to carry on BF then it's best to wait til around 6mos as the digestive system has matured more then BUT if you're planning to stop BF around 6 mos then they actually recommend introducing solids around 4 mos under the protection of the BM rather than wait til 6 mos and do it while on formula.
For formula fed babies it is said to be more important to wait til around 6 mos, but it can also be harder to hold off a baby til then as formula contains the same calories per onze while BM changes to become more nutritious as baby grows (they don't actually need more ozs) so a FF baby will "max out" their stomach capacity and may show signs of needing more food. So 4-6 mos depending on the baby and the feeding method here.

This is what I've been reading bits about but that is really interesting about BF becoming more calorific per oz as time goes on.  Amazing!! 

The third was BF'd the longest and intro'd the slowest... she has the worst allergies and is by far the most picky.

Poor wee mite.  Hope her allergeries get better as she grows.  we've just seen the paed for R's MPI and she said her intolerance would have been more severe and I would have noticed it more had I been FFing so tell your SIL in the longterm BFing will have been for the best as her allergeries could have been much much worse with FFing and the picky eating could have been much worse too. 

[*Kara*]

I can't imagine her allergies being worse - she is the only kid I have ever heard of with a rice allergy

[Erin M]

Totally interesting.  My ped gave us the 4-6 month guidelines at James' 4 month checku and said that the latest studies indicate that they should be in solids by 7 months t avid taste aversions.  I wish I had asked where that info was.  James will be 5 months this weekend and doesn't seem interested yet so I'm probably waiting a few more weeks.

[clazzat]

I have to say, whatever the guidelines, we are nowhere near ready for solids here yet. He has just started to watch occasionally when I am eating, but that is truly the only sign that he is even approaching it. So it is definitely about watching your own baby and making decisions based on that.

[anna*]

In regards to studying nutrition Anna is your SIL specializing in paediatric nutrition? Because I would say that unless she is really focusing on the younger stuff then it does not mean that she would know about recommendations, yk? 

Well true, and no she's not studying paediatric nutrition, but I know that if it was ME and it was an area of particular interest and my own kid, I'd surely be researching and reading up on all the latest findings.

This is all really interesting ladies, thanks. With Stan I was very stalwart about NOT offering any solids before 6 months - and by that point he really was very ready.

[*Kara*]

I agree with Clazzat - it's all about watching for when your own LO is ready