Dinner and mealtimes getting out of control...

[Mashi]

Not sure what I am looking for here, maybe just help with sorting my head and coming up with a plan!

DS has always been quite picky and none of the "normal" advice holds up here....For instance from day one he ate food that I made, a variety beyond belief right form the baby months, colourful food, nothing processed, etc etc etc.  He is involved in shopping, choosing, making, serving and so on - he could care less if he chose it, paid for it, carried it home, cracked it, whipped it, cooked it, flipped it and stuck it on the table - when it comes to tasting it he will just shrug and say "no thanks, I don't want to" or something similar.   

What he does eat does not bother me and he is not really THAT limited in my opinion and he eats quite well and healthy.  All fruits and most vegetables, meats, dairy, etc.   So he is not picky in terms of limited eating but picky in terms of he likes what he likes and does not like what he does not.

So we have two problems.

One he will not try anything he has not seen before or that he has decided he does not like or that remotely looks like something he does not like.  I have never really been too concerned about this in the past, but now at kindergarten they serve hot lunch and it is all stuff that DS either does not really know or stuff that he does not like. So he does not eat.  AT ALL.  He is crying starving when I pick him up, and I pick him up right after lunch at 1230 instead of waiting for the day to finish at 2pm, because I can't leave him there starving.  They do a morning snack at about 10am but he eats half of a crispbread (ie/ ryevita) for instance and that is it.  I do feed him when he comes home but it really messes about with our dinner...(which is problem 2).   The kindergarten teachers will not sit with him and encourage him to eat or anything like that - lunch is served and the kids just have to sit there and if he does not want it my DS just dumps it in the waste bucket.  And they give dessert no matter what the kids have or have not eaten so sometimes I will pick him up and they will say "well it was fish and rice today and he ate nothing, but he did have 3 bowls of jello for dessert...."    But I really really really NEED him to start eating things, and I don't know how to go about it.  We had this great plan for me to go back to work in early October once DS was settled in school but I have not even made any steps towards it (and am potentially losing my chance!!) because I just can not comprehend how on earth I am expected to leave a 3yo at school from 8am - 5pm with *nothing* to eat?! 

Second problem....come dinner time he is either tired and won't eat, or too full from filling up at 2pm, or whatever other emotion or excuse there happens to be and dinner time is getting out of control. We have always allowed a car or two at the table and I have no problem with this.  But what is happening is that I am so desperate for him to eat that we pander to him and I end up feeding him while DH plays cars with him.  Or if it is not me feeding him I still have to say "stop and take a bite" and often get the food on his fork or put his fork in his hand and stab the food and make him put it up to his mouth. So he has a LOT of assistance and attention and whatnot with eating. Which he will never get at kindergarten so I am sure it is some of the problem there.   But if he does NOT get it at home then he ends up not eating. Which means no lunch, no dinner pretty much every day, which I can't do!

I don't go for the idea of 'this is meal time and if you don't eat that is it' for either lunch or dinner, such as saying that when I pick him up from kindergarten there is a small snack but nothing else until dinner and/or leaving him to it at dinner time and nothing but a small bedtime snack later on ... but can't see any way through it otherwise.  We have been trying a slow-and-steady approach but it is going SO slow and we are getting NOWHERE with it.  I don't even know how to isolate which problem to deal with first anymore and how to push on with it.  Any ideas?

[squeakersmum]

Is there any way you could send him with a small packed lunch? Not ideal I know when they are providing (and you are presumably paying for? a hot lunch) but maybe he would at least eat something?? Could he have some of his and be offered some of the hot lunch.

As for dinner, DS is allowed to bring toys to the table but he's not allowed to play with them while he is eating. He can play while I'm dishing up and between main and pud and after pud.

TBH though I'm not the best person to give advice - if I want DS to try anything and I know he won't I have been known to plonk some ketchup on his plate - then he'll eat anything!!

[Mom to M&M]

I was wondering about a packed lunch too! My DS is much younger (2 1/4) but also VERY picky in his own way. PLUS he has a dairy intolerance. So he only gets lunch at his school on Mondays, the other days I send in his lunch (he's there M/W/F). Not ideal but it works for us. Course he's only there from 9-12 so if at least if he still refuses to eat there he eats at 12:15 when we get home.

They also have a healthy snack program at our school where each week a parent (on a rotating schedule) is responsible for supplying fruits/veggies for the class for that week. So instead of crackers or whatever at 10 am they are all getting fresh fruit or carrot sticks served. So at least last week on Wednesday when he refused lunch at 11:30 he had already had quite a bit of melon at 10!

As for toys, we don't allow them at the table per se, BUT lately we keep 2-3 very small board books nearby. If I need to encourage DS to try something new I tell him I will read a book if he does. So last week he ended up eating a homemade small fish finger that way (usually refused!). So he ate the fish finger, his big sister and I (DH was still at work) said yay and thanks for trying it and then I read a book. I guess sort of bribery but it worked for us. I used to have to do something similar with DD and then slowly weaned away the books by the time she was 3.5-4 and today she's a FAB eater!

LOL on the ketchup Steph - that always worked for DD too. Sadly my DS isn't a fan yet!

[Mashi]

No, we are not allowed to send a packed lunch. If I was allowed to then we would not have any stresses, I could send him a rucksack full of food and he would eat it all!!   IN terms of healthy food there is not really any shortage of that, there is a lot of option at morning snack and all of the parents bring it in on Mondays - fruit, vegetables, hard boiled eggs, wg breads, cheeses, etc.  But he is allowed to choose and take two bites and run off if he wants to, so it does not help to fill him....

Yes ketchup is great here, too.  He likes loads of dips - tzaziki, hummus, yogurt, etc etc, but there are no dips at school!

[Mom to M&M]

What if a child has a food allergy - is a packed lunch allowed then?

Hmmmm... not sure what to say. Can you bring lunch with you when you pick him up so he can even eat a small sandwich or the like in the car? That way at least it's not too late when he does eat? Though that won't help when/if you go back to work and aren't picking him up early. In which case I'd probably work on easing the assistance at dinner time - if you can wean off the toys, help, etc at dinner time it might mean a few days (or more) of little to no dinners but I'd think he'd eventually start eating again and it might help/spill over to his lunch at school?

[MasynSpencerElliotte]

if you can wean off the toys, help, etc at dinner time it might mean a few days (or more) of little to no dinners but I'd think he'd eventually start eating again and it might help/spill over to his lunch at school?

I agree with this, though I think for sure you will have alot of days of refusal before he eats something by himself.  My kids wouldn't allow me to feed them once they developed a good pincer grasp, so they are left to their own devices and if they eat, they eat.  I don't worry too much if they skip a meal as I know they will never truly starve themselves. 

What if a child has a food allergy - is a packed lunch allowed then?

Yeah, what would they do then?  I have to pack Spencer a snack for school every day (normally one parent brings for all the kids, but her intolerances are too much to expect other people to work around)

[Mashi]

We have very frequently let him walk away from a meal without eating but I just can't / won't then deny him food, iyswim.  He does not eat at kindergarten, I don't believe it is right to then tell him that he can't have anything to eat until dinner time. Not to mention that I would literally have to barricade the kitchen, and then deal with a child screaming his head off that he is hungry and wants food...I don't believe in starving him out, kwim?  I just think there HAS to be another way. 

I have no idea what they would do about food allergies, although I suspect they would prepare meals seperately for an allergic child or work with the parents to come up with an acceptable solution, but it's not relevant as DS does not have any food allergies, so in that regard, tbh, I don't really care what their policy is!

I do take a lunch when I pick him up, but again if he is not eating then I can't let him stay there all day without adequate food.  And to pick him up at 5pm and expect him to wait while I make dinner and so on, when he goes to bed at 5/530 as it is....it is a recipe for disaster.

[koe2moe]

This is tough.  I would be inclined to let him be.  When he's hungry enough, he will eat, is my theory but it's easier said than done.  Is he average weight?  If you and your DH do so much to try to lure him to eat, he knows it.  LOs are too smart.  Peer influence is quite amazing even for little kids. 

You can also try giving him not very filling snacks when you pick him up so that it won't affect dinner.  

[aimeeL]

Is there any way you can get a list of the hot lunch menu?  And maybe make some of those meals at home to get him familiar with them and broaden his palette, so to speak?  I mean, I know you said you're not concerned about his diet, so this obviously isn't for that purpose - but just so that what they feed him at school starts to be familiar and acceptable?

[Mom to M&M]

Is there any way you can get a list of the hot lunch menu?  And maybe make some of those meals at home to get him familiar with them and broaden his palette, so to speak?  I mean, I know you said you're not concerned about his diet, so this obviously isn't for that purpose - but just so that what they feed him at school starts to be familiar and acceptable?

That's a good idea!