Cold turkey to 1 nap - OT disaster - & now resisting 2 naps aarrrgggghhhh!!!

[Shiv52]

As I've been with you for months now I know that Oliver has been here before. You allow him to catch up, he has a few days feeling a little better then you're right back in the mess. I can't help but think that every time you and Oliver get to this stage he is so unhappy that you are forced into going back. The one thing you haven't tried is to push through after getting to this stage. I can't help but wonder if he needs to go a little further for his body to surrender and finally take the sleep he needs

OK given that PP knows you guys so well I will admit that this was my first instinct but I didn't want to say it because you are so upset. 

I do think pushing through and sticking to the routine is the BEST thing to do.  Even the last few days has been a bit up and down as he had a one nap day and then he pooed yesterday and the first nap couldn't be extended so they could also be contributing factors. 

I guess my thinking in telling you to follow him for a week was to help you see it is no better and then maybe you'd feel better about pushing through the OT as you'd know you've covered all bases.

I would stick with 4.15 A time first thing, nap for 1.5 hours at least, longer if wake up was silly but wake in time to be able to fit in a CN and proper A time to bed.  And accept the days may be long and bedtime later than you'd like for a while but as he gets used to the A time that will pull back.

HTH xx

[Kay Dee]

Claire, so sorry you're having a tough time with this again 

I do think that this:

I wonder though if he does need the longer A times to sleep well but needs good naps to cope with the longer A times long term?

And this:

You were advised that it has taken other LO's 4 weeks of extreme OT to finally get with the routine. It hasn't been that long yet, so what if you are once again stopping shortly before it's going to work. Then the last fortnight you've commited to trying to make it work and Oliver getting those A times into his head has been for nothing.

are very good points and something to keep in mind.

Hope you have a lovely birthday and get a bit of a break over the weekend x

[Kay Dee]

Oops, post crossed with Shiv. Totally agree with everything she has said x

[clairebear79]

Hi hun 

I think you are right Vicky - I do need to see it through this time, b/c yes, we HAVE been here before.  And it isn't getting any better.  And we need to get ourselves through it & onto a routine that will actually work.  I need to stop panicking & stick with it don't I?

So I have messed up a bit today b/c I backtracked & PD at 4hrs A & not 4.5hrs like I'd originally planned.  I guess not so bad, its only 15mins earlier than yesterday.  He went to sleep very quickly & is still asleep 2hrs later.  I will go & wake him up now, & hope to God I can get him down for a short CN later on, maybe 3.30-4pm.  If I can get 15-20mins out of him that would see us to a 6.30pm BT & it doesn't make the day so stupidly long & maybe, just maybe we have a chance of pulling that wakeup later.

Shiv - Agree about stopping clock watching.  I will do my best to just watch him & not worry so much about fitting it into his day.  Though he really does need to be in bed at 7pm latest today b/c we have a meal booked at 7.30pm tonight for my birthday.

Thanks so much all of you for your continued help & support.  I'm going to try & enjoy the rest of my day.xx

[Shiv52]

Sounds like a plan lovely xx

[Truly Blessed]

Hi Honey,

I don't think 4 hours is disastrous...in fact considering his 2 hour nap it sounds like you made a good call  . That should go someway to helping him feel better and hopefully make getting the cat nap easier.

Stick with it Sweetheart. We all know how hard it is when our LO's are unhappy as it's the opposite of what we want for them so badly. Try and focus on the long term goal and try and and enjoy your Birthday meal. Once he's in bed tonight there's nothing to worry about untill morning!  So raise a glass and toast your Birthday and your total dedication to Oliver. I hope you and Stuart can emjoy being a couple without the parental strain.

Big Hugs.x.

[clairebear79]

Thanks hun.  I agree 4hrs isnt a disaster, just a bit backwards from where I wanted to be today.  He really did need it though.

Ladies....I have tried my hardest to observe him for tired signs this afternoon & have struggled TBH.  He has been playing well but over the last hour or so has been lolling all over the floor & keeps arching his back etc.  He's rubbed his eyes a couple of times & I have tried different activities with him to make sure he's not bored so I've put him down at 3.10pm, 4hrs 10 A time.  It took him til 3.40pm to go to sleep so I clearly PD too early again.

I think the difficulty I'm having is b/c he constantly appears tired/displays tired signs & its very difficult to tell if they are real 'I need to sleep now' signs or just 'I feel a bit tired out at the moment b/c you keep messing with my routine', IYSWIM?

So folks my next dilemma is how long to let him sleep for   Do I go for the shorter CN of 15-20mins & PD at 6.30pm to keep the day that bit shorter, OR go for the longer CN of 30mins & do 3hrs A time to BT?  I would like to achieve 7pm BT but if doing that stretches his day to the point where he sleeps a shorter night then IMO its not worth it.  I'd rather PD at 6.30 & have him sleep 11hrs+ than PD at 7 & have him sleep 10hrs.  We can get to 7pm BT in a few days when his WU gets later, right?

[clairebear79]

Morning ladies.

So yesterday went:
Wake: 5am
Nap: 9-11
CN:  3.40 - 4.00
BT:  6.55   (PD at 6.30 but it seems after a 20min nap that was too early)

Today - started stirring at 4.40am & I nearly cried......5am all went quiet...... & up for the day at 6.45am - 11h 50 night sleep.   He must've really needed it.

So, as for today - what do I do?  

Its not feasible to repeat yesterday exactly as I'd need to do a 14hr day which makes for an 8.45pm BT. I am prepared to do a slightly later BT but I really don't want it that late.  Ideally 7.30pm latest.  I know I could cap the CN at 10mins to make the last A even shorter but I'm still not sure it will be short *enough* to fit into a 12.5hr day.

Also if he's had a better night, then he might not be tired enough after 4hrs A to a) fall asleep and b) give a 2hr nap as yesterday.  I think yesterday was just catch up.  So..... should we be straight back to 4.15 A or even 4.5hrs A as this is actually what I was meant to have done yesterday

And if I do 4.25/4.5hrs A, this puts the nap at around 11am, if he sleeps 2hrs again then he needs 4.5hrs A time after the nap, this puts CN at 5.30pm.  Would I be better doing a 10min CN and 7.30pm BT or just shoot for EBT at say 6pm?  I really don't care if his WU is earlier than today, the most important thing is to eliminate the OT, and if EBT is a better way to go than stretching the day then I am happy to do it.

[Truly Blessed]

Morning Honey,

Super night  Rather than thinking of it as a catch up night let's think of it as the start of the beginning of Oliver falling into place  . What to do today  IIWM I'd take the opportunity to do 4.15 A time or 4.5 if he's happy and seems to be able to go that far, he should be happier after such a good night. Then after that you really can't know what to do untill you see how long he naps.

If he has a good 2 hour nap it seems you'd need to go for a 1 nap day with EBT..don't you think  That probably scares you but it would be a great result  .

Otherwise a shorter nap would have to be followed by a short cat nap but you're going to have to play it by ear depending on just how short his nap is...I see the predicament  . However a later BT with 2 naps just might get you a geat WU in the morning.

Would you say that a shorter A time to bed than usual would definetely have an adverse effect if he's starting to fit into the routine  It's hard to strike the balance between the right A times and not pushing too far when he's starting to do well.

It doesn't seem right the a great WU brings a different challenge  GRRRRRRRRRRRR.

(X)

[Kay Dee]

Great night! What about doing 4.5hrs A time but capping the nap at 1.5hrs so there's time to fit in a catnap?

[Shiv52]

I would do 4.15 A time, cap the nap at 1.5 and then CN and later bedtime.

I honestly would not do EBT as I think after the long nap at Grannys the other day is where the OT really started to set in.

I would stick to the plan of long nap then CN then later bedtime for a few days.  You may have to accept an 8pm bedtime though but that does not make for a longer day than he normally has.

[clairebear79]

Thanks for the input ladies.

KDee - Such a deliberation to cap the nap at 1.5hrs.  It frightens me more than EBT!  It would still put the catnap at 5/5.15pm - am  scared it would be too late & he would just refuse.  And if I attempt & he refuses then it will end up pushing BT later by the time we have got him up & got him ready for bed.

Vicki - I agree if I let him sleep & he does a 2hr+ nap really the only option is 1 nap.  This is what happened the other day when MIL had him, but I think we did BT too late & we got EW the next day so I'd have to be REALLY careful with this.

WRT a shorter A to BT - I don't think its a problem if he's already done 2x 4-4.5hr A times in the day.  But TBH I think that at this stage its just making his day too long.  He is awake for 12hrs every day - he is going to get exhausted & this could harm our nights as much as anything else.  We've been here before & 14hr days are just not sustainable long term.

My biggest worry this AM (Vicki - WRT thinking of the long night as him getting used to the new routine, rather than 'catch up' ) is that he is already yawning, only 2.5hrs after WU.  I fear pushing til 11am is going to result in an OT nap.    I am going to stay with it but think I will probably go in the middle with 4.15 A time, unless he seems like he can go the 4.5hrs.

I'll update tonight with how it went.x

ETA:  Shiv - just saw your post.  4.15 is what we'll do.  Hmm still undecided on the capping of the nap but we'll see.

[clairebear79]

He was asleep at 11am, 4h 15 A time.  If I did cap at 1.5hrs, does 4hrs A sound about right (he did 4.5 after a 2hr nap yesterday) so CN at 4.30pm?  And how long for?  If we do 30mins to give him enough day sleep (2hrs total) then he will need 3-3.5hrs A to BT which puts BT at 8-8.30pm, I do worry that is a bit too late really

If I cap the CN even shorter at say 10-15mins he may do something like 2.5-2.75hrs A after it (this is a total guess of course), which would put BT at 7.15-7.30pm, HOWEVER he will only have had 1h 40-45 total day sleep which is on the low side for a 13.5/13.75hr day isn't it   Which is worse

Ladies I think we are almost at the stage where we need to keep pushing the nap out & go with EBT until we are at 5hrs A b/c writing this I realise there just isn't enough time to fit it all in.  Is that more sensible in the long run than stretching his day???  I just get the feeling he will get more OT with a longer day than with 1 nap & EBT while we push it out.  I want to do whatever we can to make sure we can stay with this plan.

[Shiv52]

I think the problem you are going to find with that is you then need him to do a 13.5 hour night (based on 4.5 A time and 2 hour nap and 4 hours A time  to bed) and I just think that is not feasible.

So yes you could do 2 hour nap now and he'll be up at 1pm but then bed will be 5.30pm if you give him 4.5 A time?  So if he does an 11 hour night you are looking at 4.30am wake up?  Or even 5.30 if he does a 12 hour night.  KWIM?  And i think given that his day only consists of 8.5-9 hours A time he is not realistically going to sleep more than 11.5 hours. 

[clairebear79]

Would that still apply if he slept say 2.5hrs & we did a 5hr A time to BT so 6/6.30pm BT?  Or is that just going to cause OT?