How to extend naps

[aMei]

Hi,
My lo is 3 months old.  We just started the EASY a few days ago and learned that we did accidental parenting.  We used to hold and rock him to sleep or have him fall asleep while nursing.  He also used to start his night time sleep around 11pm and wake up between 9 and 11am (with 2 nighttime feedings).  He is still crying to sleep without the props, but the PU/PD is starting to work.  But, we can't get him to nap for more than 30-50 minutes.  What should we be doing?  Also, when it is time for him to eat again, he is sleepy and falls asleep while nursing despite my attempts to keep him awake while nursing (tickle, foot squeezes, etc.).  The following is his EASY routine for the last 2 days and an ideal routine:

Yesterday's routine:
E-9am
A
S-10am (He slept for 40 min)

E-12pm
A
S- We did PU/PD and he did not sleep.

E-3pm
A
S-5:10pm (We started PU/PD at 4:15pm and he fell asleep at 5:10pm and slept for 50 min)

E-6pm
A
S-7pm (He fell asleep after only 2 PU/PD's)

E-9:45pm (He woke up screaming.  We had planned on doing a DF at 10pm.)
S-11:20pm (woke at 5am to feed)

Today's routine:
E-8:30am
A
S-10am (started PU/PD at 9:15am and stayed asleep for 1 hour)

E-11:15am
A
S-1:20pm (started PU/PD at 12:45pm and stayed asleep for 40 min)

E-2pm
A
S-3:45pm (started PU/PD at 3:30pm and stayed asleep for 40 min)

E-5pm
A
S-6:30pm (only shush/pat for 10 min and cat nap for 30min)

E-7pm
A-bath
E-8pm
S-8:30pm

don't know what the rest of the night will look like...

Ideal Routine:
E-8am
A-
S-9-9:30am

E-11am
A
S-12-12:30pm

E-2pm
A
S-3-3:30pm

E-4:30pm
A
S-5:30pm cat nap

E-6:30pm
A-bath
E-7:30pm
S-8pm

Not really sure what his routine should look like at the end of the day.  We are thinking to start his day at 8am, because day light savings will happen soon, so we won't have to change his schedule again. 

Lastly, should we shush/pat even if he doesn't whine/cry when we put him down?  I didn't this morning and he was fine for about 5 minutes then started all out crying, so then we started PU/PD.  Since he's new to this, how long should we continue shush/pat with him?

[ZacsMumme]

3 months is a hard time nap wise as a lot of LOs will wake after 1 sleep cycle which is around 45mins. This is in part developmental until ~6months but there are things we can do to help them learn to transition.

First have a look at these links. I think your LO is probably still too young for PU/PD, it can be stimulating. I would try shh/pat again. You do sometimes have to modify shh/pat to work for your LO. For example my LO didnt like the back patting but preferred a bottom pat to a heart beat rythem, and sometimes no shhing IYKWIM?

These are methods to help your LO sleep longer than 45mins.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=213387.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=649.0
These are more related to sleep in general and teaching your LO to sleep
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26672.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=212645.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85499.0

He sounds pretty OT which may be why he is falling asleep during the feed. APing is okay if sometimes, and your LO is very young so it is okay to do some rocking etc. You may even need to do this until your LO is sleepy while you shh and pat then try gently putting him in the cot when he is sleepy and continuing the patting etc. Eventually you can then start to PD into the cot when your LO is more and more awake. It may take a while to get into your ideal routine while your LO is this young.. Great work so far though his nights don't look too bad considering the rough days:)

Few questions
Does your LO use a dummy? Does he have a lovey?
How do you resettle when your LO wakes at night? - Always feed or only when due to?
Do you know his mantra cry...or what a mantra cry is?
Are you BF or bottle?

(HUGS)

[aMei]

We were using pacifiers to help him sleep longer, but we stopped using it because we thought we were using it as a prop.  He doesn't really have a lovey yet. 

He's always been a pretty good sleeper at night.  When he was around 2 months old, he slept for 6-8 hour stretches.  We think he stopped due to his 3 month growth spurt and has been waking twice a night ever since.  And, yes, I always end up nursing him when he wakes up at night.  We used to give him the pacifier, but it would only prolong his sleep for 10-20 minutes.  So, I would end up nursing after about an hour of trying.  We are also trying to figure out if he's waking because he's actually hungry or just got in the habit of waking up.  For the last 2 nights, he has only woken up once instead of twice.  So, he was probably waking out of habit?

I haven't read about mantra cry..what is it?

I took your advice and rocked him in my arms during the usual sitting time for a few minutes.  He was looking sleepy, so I put him down in his crib before he fell asleep and then continued with humming and patting. He fell asleep within 10 minutes and stayed asleep for 2 hours.  His first 2 hour nap after starting the EASY!!!  He woke up so much more alert and playful.  He wanted to play during nursing instead of falling asleep. 

His first A is usually really short, because he's really sleepy or falls asleep during nursing.  Does this mean he just needs a few more days to adjust to the routine? or, he needs more nighttime sleep?  Should I just let him sleep without A?  Or, just have a really brief A (30 minutes)?

Lastly, how long does it usually take for babies to learn to be PD without crying.  Every day, he seems to have 1-3 drawn out crying PD's then just some whining with the rest of the day for the last 3 days.  I'm curious because my husband will be out of town for a week, starting today, so I'm trying to get myself mentally ready for the crying.

Thank you for your help!

[ZacsMumme]

o I put him down in his crib before he fell asleep and then continued with humming and patting. He fell asleep within 10 minutes and stayed asleep for 2 hours.

Great one! Victory You may find some days/naps easier than others...and if you and him are not having a good day then it is okay to AP to get that nap. If you persevere every day then you will find he will accept more naps in the cot and will be less and less in your your arms until you can give him a cuddle and pop into bed Thsi is really gradual weaning with shh/pat. I think this is a really gentle way to teach LOs to sleep independently.

If you are unsure about when he is hungry then unless he is GS I would say he can at least go as long as he can during the day. Are you bottle or BF? He is still so little dont beat yourself up about those NW. I would try to 'not' feed every NW though if they are as frequent as every few hours. Maybe you could try what you do for naps. cuddle, rock a bit, hum/patt etc and then move him back into his cot. Or try patting/shhing in the cot when he wakes.

Babies sometimes make noises, including moans and cries during their settling to sleep. A mantra cry is your LOs way of settling himself to sleep. They are hard to work out sometimes (took me months!) but basically if your LO is mantra crying you are best to leave them to try to settle themselves. Now, if your LO is crying for you then this is NOT a mantra cry and you must go in and comfort him. Here is a link that may help you to identify your LOs one...just be on the look out for it and over time you will recognize it. Generally they do not escalate and are not as loud as a real cry.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64160.0

You may find with all those NW your LO needs a shorter first A. I would PD when you think he is tired and if you find you are not getting a good nap then try pushing him out a touch (just 5mins every few days too see how he goes)

Lastly, how long does it usually take for babies to learn to be PD without crying.  Every day, he seems to have 1-3 drawn out crying PD's then just some whining with the rest of the day for the last 3 days.  I'm curious because my husband will be out of town for a week, starting today, so I'm trying to get myself mentally ready for the crying.

(HUGS) all LOs are different. At this age if your DS is not in pain then I would think he may adjust okay, but at this young age it is sometimes hard to tell. Personally I think if you are finding a nap really hard to get him to settle, just get him to sleep with AP and work on the next one. With your DH away you and your LO dont need the stress, or the OT. You will find though, over time it does get easier and once your LO is an independent sleeper he will always resort back to it when well if you get off track with illness etc.

Now is a good time to introduce a lovey as well
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64402.0

You are doing a wonderful job!!! x

[Frony]

Hey, my LO is almost 14w and we had/have the same problem. But I'm using shh/pat, with PU/PD she was just confused and wasn't able to calm down at all. I started with the shh/pat 5 days ago for the night and 3 days ago for the naps. With the firs tnap it took about 40m to get her to sleep and she slept 30 min. The next day it took 15m and she slept an hour. Today she slept once 1.30, once 60min and two times only 30. We have problems with the 5pm nap,it takes 30-40m to get her to sleep. But I think that it'll be better in time. I think they just need time to learn to get back to sleep without rocking and nursing...
Oh and I use paci, it makes it a lot easier.
Good luck

[aMei]

Thank you for sharing and all your support.  I really needed it, especially when my husband was out of town.

Time flies.  My husband was gone for a week and now we're getting ready to move.  I'm so glad that we started BW when we did.  He is starting to not want much pat for initial falling asleep.  He still needs shh/pat to extend his naps...those are still hit/miss, but definitely starting to see more success.  We're also transitioning him to the 4 hour EASY.  He's turning 4 months old next week!  I can't believe how fast he's growing.  Thank you!