I can't go through this again!!

[scucci1979]

I am sad and upset. It looks like I will be tackling these nws on my own. I completely understand where hubby is coming from as is has been averaging 3-4hours of sleep. He needs to sleep and him helping me with these nws is not helping him. I am just p***d off.

Anyhow, she went to sleep fine in her bed. Come 12am she woke up, so I tucked her back in and sand her a few songs. She kept asking me to sing songs. This went of for 30mins. Finally, I said enough. she came running to get hubby. Hubby sang songs and again this went on for one hour. Then for the next hour we get directing her back in her room. I wasn't ready to cave in yet but hubby was. She asked to sleep on the floor in our room so he let her.  Sigh. 
Deb, I don't mind her doing this once in a while but it is becoming a habit now and I don't want it to continue until is is 5or older. My SIL still sleeps with her daughter and she is 8years old. I also don't mind sleeping in her bed, attempting the GW but what do I do if Alyssa wakes up at night. I mean, if Madi is not in a deep sleep then she will wake up and follow me.  YKWIM? 
A part of me tells me to let her continue to sleep on the floor if needed and another part of me tells me to attempt GW. A bigger part of me thinks I should attempt GW.  Anyhow, when she wakes during the night and asks me to sleep in her bed, do i do it for one week, then move to the floor and outside the door.  It is such a blur when I did GW a few months back. All I remember is staying outside her door and sleeping on the floor outside her room during the early morning hours. 
I want her to sleep in her bed. It feels all that sleep training over the years went down the drain and now I have to start from scratch again. 

[Tweakster]

(((hugs hon)))  I don't think any of us can really tell you what to do because you know Madi best and know what will work for her.  If you did GW with success before, I'd try it again now.  It honestly sounds like Madi is just pushing the limits to see how consistent you will be, and with DH not around for those wakings it's easy to get off track because you are so tired and want it to stop.

She has a double bed right?  I'd put her to bed as usual, go to bed earlier yourself, and at the first waking go in and lay with her, don't sing songs, don't do anything but lay down and tell her to go to sleep, repeat your key phrase without emotion.  Do that until she's just waking and going back to sleep at night.  Get everyone caught up on sleep.  This allows your hubby to sleep and he can tend to Alyssa should she wake.  She's not waking often right?  Then I'd work at moving out of Madi's room.

If you don't want to lay with her and you want everyone in their own beds then the only way is to get tough and put up a gate.  Tell her you are not available and that she's not allowed out of her room until sunshine is on.  If she's scared you can reassure her verbally but no one has to leave their room. 

[*Becky*]

Agree with everything Wendy has said.

[scucci1979]

Will try that tonight.Her bed is a queen, so big enough for the both of us.  Now do I wait until she falls asleep then leave? I am afraid that she will wake frequently looking for me. Yikes.

[Tweakster]

I wouldn't leave at all.  I would plan to do GW.  So in this case you would stay for several days until Madi is waking and seeing you there in her bed and just going back to sleep.  It will not be comfortable for you I'm afraid but it will hopefully help Madi get back on track with feeling 'safe'.  Then you start the GW so you start moving out of the room.

In reality, GW is meant for different situations but in this case Madi has gotten some parental dependence going on so if you are not a fan of just telling her to stay in her room and letting her be upset about it, then I'd use the GW to see if it may work.

[scucci1979]

thanks Wendy.

Last night went a little better. She went to bed fine. I put her sea light turtle on and asked us to leave the door open.  She woke at 12am, hubby put her back down and stayed for one minute. Woke again at 3am, so I stayed in her bed until she fell asleep. I was going to stay but I had to go to the washroom, so I left.  Come 6am, I find her in my bed.  I think she must of woke at 5am and creeped into my room. Grrr...  I woke at 6am with this kid in my back. I was shocked. I wanted to bring her back but she was sound asleep.
I do agree Wendy that she is going through some parental dependency.  She wants to cuddle and she never did that before.  tonight is a new night so if she wakes I plan to stay again in her room until Alyssa wakes up.

[Tweakster]

Here's hoping for tonight xo

[scucci1979]

thanks. 

she went down for bed pretty easy(no nap). did our usual wd and left her bedroom door open. I hat leaving it open b/c she will more likely hear Alyssa wake.  I am preparing myself for a battle tonight.

[scucci1979]

Ladies, I give up! She woke up every two hours from a 7:30pm bt until midnight.  I didn't stay with her when she initially fell asleep. she kept asking to sleep in my room. Finally at midnight, I just had enough and told her I would stay for one minute in her bed. I put her sea light turtle on and laid with her. this went on for 30mins. She kept asking me for one more minute. She wouldn't even close her eyes. Like you said Wendy, she has developed this parental attachment with me.  Anyway, I gently told her that I was going to go to my room now and then she began to tell me that her tummy hurts, she is itchy, she has a boo boo, etc. You know the drill! She kept coming out of her bed and I kept directing her back with no talking. Each time I did that she kept saying "sorry mamma."  My heart broke b/c I knew she needed me but I don't want her to sleep in my bed. Then Alyssa woke up crying, so I told Madi to wait in her bed so I can settle Alyssa. She followed me to A's room and I got very upset. It is like she won't listen to me. Am I the weak parent? seriously, what am I doing wrong? Anyhow, after 1.5hours of this she asked to sleep on the floor in my room and I let her.  I didn't want to cave in but I was afraid that A would wake up again. Anyhow, I was going to give myself a 3hour limit last night of directing her back into bed if A didn't wake up.
I do want to put the gate up but hubby is really against it.  B/c I shut the door on her last week she got more scared and upset and now wants her door open. Hubby thinks the gate will make it worse.  Damn it! I didn't want to try the GW again.  I guess I have to.

Plan for tonight. Do normal bt routine, then leave and go to my bed. When she wakes up I will bring her back and sleep in her bed. I will do this for a few nights then move to her floor.  Now I need to find a sleeping bag. I think this may be the only option other then the gate.   I just love my own space in my bed.
I know if I give her the option of leaving her Cinderella bed in my room and she sleeps there, she will do this every night.

Deb, if you read this, did your lo sleep on the floor every night?  I don't know why I am against it. I just feel like I worked so hard on sleep training when she was an infant and now that she a toddler she is so much more difficult and stubborn.

[deb]

She would usually go to sleep in her room and then move, and then she would come to our room before she'd even given herself a chance to fall asleep. I didn't throw the complete strop over it till she was 5YO, but by then I knew it was preference on her part instead of fear.

When there was fear, though, I found that the more I made them process it alone, the longer it took them to get past it. Once the fear part was done, I could be more firm about moving them back, but with Josie I hadn't made that connection so I really pushed to have her in her room - I'm someone who needs to have my own space too - and in retrospect I kind of wish I'd given her more time. She did respond well to the sleeping bag thing, and it also helped that when we went on vacation and got out of that routine, when we came back it was quite a while before they remembered the sleeping bag thing if ever. (J outgrew it in that fashion, while Natalie, being more Spirited, needed something more, um, concrete. Like her mom throwing a strop.

Have you tried Sleep Talk? There's a thread about it someplace. I use it from time to time to help my kids move past things. (And it didn't even occur to me to try it on Natalie at the time. )

[scucci1979]

I do talk to her throughout the day about sleeping in her BGB since she is a big girl. We bought her the Seal light turtle, which she loves but ignores it during the night when she wakes. She wants me to either stay in her bed or her to come in my room.  It must be a comfort thing.  I have also started a reward chart again, but she just ignores the concept.
What kind of sleep talk do you ladies do?

[Tweakster]

Sabs I'm not entirely convinced it's a comfort thing.  I think it could be a 'Madi wants' thing.  I don't know why she's waking and it could very well have started with the storm but it's causing a habit to develop that she can't get to sleep without you.  It's way too social, singing and her telling you when to come and go and following you out and ending up sometimes in your bed, sometimes back in her bed.  I'd really just either sleep in her bed for the night with no socializing - she wakes and you would be beside her so she doesn't need to go looking for you or talk to you, you are there!  Or you let her come and camp in your room, you say she will continue to do that but so what?  She's on her own Cinderella bed, you have your own space and you all get some sleep.  I think you have to decide what is the lesser of two evils, have her camp out with you until she's over it (to be honest the less chaos that goes on surrounding it, the less she will want to do it, there will be no payoff) or stay in her room and try the GW.  But I'd choose one and stick to it, and you be the person to follow through rather than having it be DH.  I think she's pushing YOU so you need to set the boundaries.  He can back you up when needed.

Honey, you are not weak, you are just having trouble being consistent.  We all are at this age the kids are at, and it's at this age that we need to the most

P.S. I have an air mattress you can use if you need it

[scucci1979]

Thanks Wendy. I have been thinking about it all day today.  This morning, I was like "who cares" if she sleeps in her Cinderella bed in our room! At least she is not in my bed and in my space. If it lasts to the age of 5, then so be it. Then this afternoon, I was thinking why can't she just sleep in her own comfy bed all night. She loved her bed. 
Going to discuss with DH this afternoon.   
I will let you know if I need the air mattress. 

[Tweakster]

I wouldn't really care if F slept on our floor and needed to during a 'phase' - nothing is forever and you've had such a good run of independent sleep, it's not like that will all be undone overnight or with just taking care of this issue.  But it's got to be a plan that everyone understands, including Madi so that she knows there's not going to be any signing or walking around or musical beds.  The bed is there, let her come in and camp out and hopefully she'll be out by the time she starts college lol  I know that she'll soon realize it's not that fun and Daddy snores or whatever and she's better off in her own bed ;-)  I am sure of it.

You can't really tackle sleep training when you are sleep deprived.  It's too hard and not effective.

[scucci1979]

I can't believe but bt was a little challenging tonight. She kept stalling and asking for requests, even when I said "enough."
My friend sent me a link from Dana's Oblemen's website. What do you ladies think of the below? Is it too harsh? When I shut the door on Madi one night, she got very upset and more scared.

Let’s say she goes to bed fine and midnight there she is. After that first night visit, march her back to her bed and show her the clock “It is only midnight and not seven, do not come out again until seven.”, and then say “If you come out again, mommy is going to have to lock your door.” Obviously, you are not going to lock her door, but if she comes again, now there is a consequence for it.

If it happens again, you take her back to her room without saying anything. You just take her back to her room, put her back in her bed and now you hold her door closed for five minutes. I have yet to meet a child who likes this. Even if she is at the other side pulling and crying and kicking, you just hold it closed for five minutes, that’s okay. After five minutes, you tuck her back in and remind her not to come into your room again. If she comes to your room again, you return her to her room and now you hold the door closed for seven minutes and each time she comes, you close the door for two minutes longer each time. Again, I have yet to meet a child who likes this and it usually only takes two to four tries before they realize that they do not like that and think “I am not going to get out of my bed again.” Most children like the door to be open, even if it is just a crack, so the idea of it actually being closed fully can be enough that they just do not get out of their bed.