I can't go through this again!!

[RachelC]

Hi Sabrina,

I have been following along, but not posting, but I have to now.  This:

Let’s say she goes to bed fine and midnight there she is. After that first night visit, march her back to her bed and show her the clock “It is only midnight and not seven, do not come out again until seven.”, and then say “If you come out again, mommy is going to have to lock your door.” Obviously, you are not going to lock her door, but if she comes again, now there is a consequence for it.

If it happens again, you take her back to her room without saying anything. You just take her back to her room, put her back in her bed and now you hold her door closed for five minutes. I have yet to meet a child who likes this. Even if she is at the other side pulling and crying and kicking, you just hold it closed for five minutes, that’s okay. After five minutes, you tuck her back in and remind her not to come into your room again. If she comes to your room again, you return her to her room and now you hold the door closed for seven minutes and each time she comes, you close the door for two minutes longer each time. Again, I have yet to meet a child who likes this and it usually only takes two to four tries before they realize that they do not like that and think “I am not going to get out of my bed again.” Most children like the door to be open, even if it is just a crack, so the idea of it actually being closed fully can be enough that they just do not get out of their bed.

is totally against everything here on BW.  I don't know your whole history, but have to agree with Wendy and pick a plan and stick to it.  If she's stalling at bedtime, start GW then.  Yes, it will make for some rough nights, but in the long run, she will get there.  If you threaten to lock her in her room (empty threat), it's not going to teach her anything, except you're not there for her when she needs you.  She needs you, in some way.  She really freaked out when you shut the door the other night, and yes, you likely broke her trust and she needs to regain it.  "locking" her door in this manner will only break that trust more.

{{{hugs}}} I know how hard it is with 2 and dealing with sleep issues.  I know how tiring it is to try to work through this.  Maybe you need a break for a couple nights and everyone gets their rest, so let her sleep in your room in her Cinderella bed and tackle this when she is well rested.  She is likely overtired now as well and that plays a huge factor into her behavior.  I also agree that the smaller deal you make out of it and the calmer you remain, the faster it will improve.  "Oh, you want to sleep here, ok, goodnight, I love you" and go to bed.

[scucci1979]

I totally agree that it is against BW-that is why i wanted to share it! I was a little shocked when I read it, but then there was that little part of me thinking maybe it might work, but I could never do that.

Anyhow, she did sleep until 5am, when she them came into my room and asked to sleep on her cinderella bed. She officially woke up at 6:30am. I do agree, that I need to regain her trust and that is why we leave her bedroom door open now, but the stalling at night needs to stop. I tell her only two books and a few songs but when we leave it is like she panics and gets scared. She says her tummy hurts. It is like she forgot how to fall asleep and I don't know how to teach her.

[scucci1979]

Last night she woke at 12pm, settled quickly then came into our room around 3am and asked to sleep on her Cinderella bed. Hubby gave in. LOL. 
I GIVE UP! If she wants to sleep on that then her comfy bed then so be it. She is going through something now and wants to stay close to me.  I heard her call out my name at 5am, to make sure I was there. this sucks!

[Tweakster]

But if the camping out in your room is the plan then it's not giving in is it?  I think that sounds great.  She woke up, she knew the option was there and she took it.  I wouldn't argue about it with her or negotiate just say 'yes Madi your bed is available, go to sleep' or whatever you want as your boring non-social non-discussion phrase.  When she calls out for you I wouldn't answer personally, she KNOWS you are there as she's in your room!  It's different if a kid wakes disoriented or from a dream that's different; but that's not the case here.  She's looking for help doing something she knows how to do and your only job here is to remind her and let her know she's safe so she'll get her confidence back.

(((hugs))). Sounds like a better night anyway!

[scucci1979]

How long do I let her sleep in our room for?

When she calls out for you I wouldn't answer personally, she KNOWS you are there as she's in your room!

will try that.

[deb]

Maybe make a little sigh so she can hear that you're there and let it go at that. If she seeks you out, use your non-discussion back-to-bed phrase - she knows you're there at that point, but that you need to sleep in YOUR bed and she sleeps in HERS.

[scucci1979]

I can try that. Are you saying, stay outside her room?  I was outside her room last night and she knew I was there, but kept getting out of her bed. It was like a game to her.  Throughout the day, I keep reminding her that she is a big girl and big girls sleep in big girl beds all night. She won't even acknowledge the groclock.  I have a stubborn one on my hands.

Last night, she was refusing to sleep in her bed. She wanted to come into our room. I kept putting her back in her bed (my arms started to hurt). Hubby came in and just gently rubbed her and she fell asleep.  She woke up every two hours wanting me in her bed. I sat on her bed for a few minutes then left. She fell asleep pretty quickly. Anyhow, came into my room at 3am asking to sleep on her Cinderella bed.  Officially woke up this morning at 6:30am b/c Alyssa was crying. i told her she could sleep more but she said she wanted to come with me. Major SA here.

[Khalam's Mama]

Just wanted to say 2 things. K would be exactly the same if he had the option. And i think the reason she persists is because she knows if she does it Will get her a different answer. I think once you decide what to do if you stick with it it Will be over quite soon. What did you and hubby decide?

[Tweakster]

I agree - if you just let her sleep on your floor with no drama she will tire of it.  There's to much going on at night with walking her back, rubbing her, sitting with her, it's way too social.  I wouldn't do the walking her back myself, I think it's too social and inviting a power struggle.  If she knows she can sleep in your room she can make that choice; leave her door open and your door open but don't talk to her other than to say 'lie down and sleep Madi'. If she wakes looking for you, just make a small sigh like Deb says so that it reminds her you are there (although I think she knows this already) and ignore everything else she does.

If you really want her in her own bed, then you can go the route of walking her back, but keep in mind it takes full resolve and you must not deviate from it. If you walk her back for an hour and then give in, it will only make her that much more determined to keep working at it.  It's called random reinforcement and it's the strongest kind there is.  We are programmed to respond to it, just ask the mice in the experiments lol. She's not actually being stubborn, she's just following our innate programming.  If every time she tries it out something different happens, she has to keep testing her theories - it's how they learn about the world.

Sabs sorry this is so hard on you (((hugs)))

[scucci1979]

Oh boy ladies. Toddlerhood is very difficult.    I really want to put a gate at her door but hubby is against it as he thinks it will make her more upset and break her trust with us.

I personally want her to sleep in her own room but if she needs to stay in our room for a little longer then so be it. I am really hoping, like you think Wendy, that she will get tired of it. I don't have the energy or motivation to fight her to sleep in her bed at night.  I do agree that bringing her back in her bed and soothing her is way too social.  It is becoming a habit and she needs to learn to fall back asleep on her own. I do leave her bedroom door open now but fear that if Alyssa wakes up at night, she will more likely hear her.

Anyhow, we have decided to enforce her to sleep in her bed and if she wakes up she can come sleep in her Cinderella bed, but we (I) am having an issue with her staying there when Alyssa wakes up in the morning. Last night she went to bed fine. Woke up around 3am and came to sleep on her Cinderella bed. Come 6:15am, Alyssa woke up crying so I went to attend to her. Her cries woke up Madison and she refused to go back to sleep or stay on her bed and wait for me. She came into Alyssa's room crying. I picked her up and placed her back on her Cinderella bed and told her to wait for me. She did NOT listen and just came back crying saying her tummy hurts and she is scared. I was getting really ticked off with her b/c I knew Alyssa wanted to go back to sleep but her cries were keeping her up. I ordered her to stay on Alyssa's bedroom floor and wait for me. she was not happy about that but she did calm down. Of course, A didn't go back to sleep so both girls have been up since 6:15am. By 12:15pm, Madi fell asleep on the sofa-utterly exhausted. She wanted to sleep more in the morning but didn't want to do it alone. Now I don't even know how long I should let her nap for.

[Tweakster]

It might just be me but 6:15 is a normal wake time in our house?  Maybe she's not tired enough to go back to sleep?

If you think she's exhausted then I'd let her have a full 2 sleep cycles personally.  Then just judge bedtime from there.  There's no A time or rules at this age, it's using their behaviour and how they are coping to determine when they need to be in bed really.

[*Becky*]

It might just be me but 6:15 is a normal wake time in our house?  Maybe she's not tired enough to go back to sleep?

same here.

There's no A time or rules at this age, it's using their behaviour and how they are coping to determine when they need to be in bed really.

Agree again...we take each day as it comes atm. Yes we have a rough idea of when bedtime will be but I base it on wake up, whether he has napped and ultimately mood as to when he goes to bed. I think wake up times will fluctuate as she is transitioning, just like when you transition from 3-2 or 2-1.

[scucci1979]

Wu times also vary here. It is just this morning I knew she wanted to sleep more but couldn't b/c I wasn't in the same room with her.  If only she would stay where she is when A cries.  Sigh.

keep you posted on how this week goes.

[scucci1979]

Wanted to give you lovely ladies an update. Two nights ago Madi slept in her bed all night. I praised her so much. I gave her a sticker on her reward chart and even bought her a little toy. Last night, she had one nw at 1:30am. She asked me to stay in her bed so I did for a few minutes. She fell back asleep pretty quick. I think I dozed off too. Woke again at 4:30am and slept on her Cinderella bed until 7am.  I guess this is progress. I keep reminding her that big girls sleep in her bed and if she does she gets a prize in the morning. She still has this fear of being alone, which I read is totally normal until the age of 4. (It is going to be a long year).  Since having two, tackling these nws has been difficult. I used to be so stern and motivated to do so.    Anyhow, baby steps, right?

I was thinking of re-reading the No cry sleep solution for toddlers. Does anyone have any insight on it?

[Tweakster]

Progress is progress hon