We're eating better, but he's not eating :(

[Tweakster]

So DH and I have totally cleaned up our acts over the past 2 years and we eat great now.  We really do.  With some help from you guys we now use the slow cooker religiously, we meal plan, we eat what is good and healthy for us, we're not perfect but we aim for that moderation that you guys really stand by 

However, this kid isn't hungry for dinner.  And in fact he's hardly eating much at home.  So if I do a slow cooker meal during the week and he won't eat it.  Or he'll poke at it and then ask to get down from the table.  It's getting tedious trying to come up with a meal he will eat or even snacks that aren't Goldfish (I purposely didn't buy any, I think a bag lasts us a month or more, but this week I said 'here's the empty bag, that's it'). 

So I need dinner ideas that he might eat, even if it's a snack.  He's getting yogurt, fruit, cheese, veg all day at daycare, along with a main meal (she does spaghetti, sandwiches, grilled cheese, chicken fingers) - it's not exactly the healthiest cuisine but he's getting protein and good fats most days, and a dose of carbs.  I want to try to avoid carbs at home but then I end up giving him a sandwich lately because it's all he'll eat.

Help!  What kind of quick meals do you serve your kid that isn't carbs?  Or at this age do you just offer the slow cooker meal and that's that?

[~inbalance~]

Ugh, very similar situation here with T.  He is poking at dinner most nights.  At the moment he will not touch anything with 'sauce' or cheese (except grilled cheese which he still loves).  So for breakfast and lunch we manage, but dinner is a flop almost every night.  Last night he refused homemade pizza.  PIZZA for goodness sakes!  And he'll only eat plain pasta now, NO sauce.    So yeah, I'd love some ideas too, because we're stuck in this rut where he doesn't eat dinner but demands his bedtime snack, and we're too weak to say no because we don't want him to go to bed hungry.  We really do strive for healthy snacks at least.

Right now I'm trying to take the approach that if breakfast, lunch, and snacks are healthy, then not to stress to much about how little he eats at dinner, but it's hard not to get frustrated. 

[Shiv52]

Last night he refused homemade pizza.  PIZZA for goodness sakes!

That was my house tonight!!!

I have found that come dinner time now M is exhausted.  So tired and will not eat all the things she will normally eat.  I have actually started giving her 'dinner' at lunch and then more of a lunch when we are eating and she is eating much better that way.  So we had lasagne last night and she has fish fingers and beans and she'd lasagne for lunch today and ate every pick.  I know it is to do with her being at nursery now and she'd just too tired to be bothered come dinner time.   Or else I do her and R's dinner earlier than usual and then supper before bed will be more substantial. 

TIredness an issue for you guys?   

[Erin M]

I was a picky kid, I have picky kids.  If they won't eat what we are eating they need to try it.  If they don't like it we basically build dinner out of the food groups - a veg (they eat raw), protein, dairy, etc.  All stuff they can pretty mcj get themselves.

[~*Nicole*~]

DD is the same recently. Not eating very much in general, preferring "snacky" items (yogurt, apples, grapes, goldfish, etc.) and especially not eating much for dinner. I've stopped giving an after dinner/before bedtime snack as I don't want to reinforce her holding out for that and she has gone to bed "hungry" a few times after not eating what we had for dinner (b/c I KNOW she likes it as she has had it before many times!!!) and she has been fine. She survived and slept all night, etc. She tends to do much better for breakfast and then dwindles her intake as the day goes on. It may be the result of tiredness.

I generally offer her whatever DH and I are eating, so tonight was sausage, asparagus and fried onions. She loves sausage so she ate that but I don't know how she did with the rest. If I am in a rush though and I haven't gotten dinner planned/cooked and ready and she needs to be done and headed for bath and bed soon, I'll do a quick kid friendly meal and just worry about myself later or join her for it....those are more like chicken nuggets w/ a veggie on the side, a hotdog with a veggie on the side, turkey and cheese rolled up, ravioli, etc. nothing too crazy but things I can cook fast or microwave.

But whatever I offer for dinner....that's it. She isn't starving. She eats plenty throughout the day so I figure it's balanced enough and that's all she needs for the moment.

What about some fun things like make your own tacos???
DD here loves meatloaf and you can add whatever you want to that.
Soups???
What about veggies dipped in humus as a side to whatever you're offering. Dipping helps us a lot. DD likes ketchup and humus, etc.
DD likes white fish if I  bake it with simple seasonings. She thinks it is chicken.
I had spaghetti squash mixed with ground turkey and sauce the other night for dinner. She ate that and thought it was pasta.

If he wants sandwiches can you switch up the type of bread/wrap he gets so it is more nutritious??? Although I don't think carbs are all that bad for kids. I think they are fine to have them in moderation.

I'll try to keep thinking. Feeding kids is tough!

[~*Nicole*~]

PS-what meals do you already make in your slow cooker???

[Tweakster]

TIredness an issue for you guys?

Yeah and that brings me to another point.  He's clearly a high sleep needs kid that never got enough sleep.  Not that that would be a surprise or anything.  Today he was up at 6:30, nap from 12:30 - 2:30 and was dead by 7.  I mean he lost his mind seven ways from Sunday about a variety of things tonight that blew me away.  HOW is he so tired?  I don't get it.  He's getting some of the best sleep of his life and he's still so so exhausted.  Should I take him to a doc?  

Anyway, I digress.

He had juice for dinner simply because it's the only way I can get the Omega supplement into him.  It's a liquid that's supposed to be 'berry good' and it tastes gross (I tried it).  So now I lace apple juice with it and give it to him that way.  So he had a cup of juice and a multivitamin...and then I sent my kid to bed.  Sheesh.

He gets lots of raw veg and dip.  He eats yogurt in the morning at home (we add probiotics) and at her place so I limit it after that.  Fruit - he gets a ton with her too but I also do give him some at home if he's looking for something.  Soup - he isn't keen.  I tried on the weekend and he said 'no like this' lol  I made creamy tomato soup and even added some greek yogurt to it.  It was delicious if you ask me...

Sandwiches are typically Marmite (of course!) or PB or I will sometimes make him cinnamon toast - all on flax bread.  He gets cream cheese with her.  In fact he gets a lot of cheese with her.  I found a bread with no sugar, no additives and it's whole grain...that catch is that it lasts about 2 days and then it molds

Meals we make are usually chicken or a meat (beef, pork roast) with potatoes and/or veg (peas, broccoli with cheese which he will scarf down...if he's hungry).  I find myself giving him less (or sometimes no) snack on the weekend so he'll eat the meals...is that wrong?  Most meals have a meat and a veg.  We don't do a lot of starch, he gets rice and stuff with her there too.  

Fish - DH will do salmon or fish fingers.  He's the only fish eater in the house and it has to be specific. 

We don't really do pasta either.  I have done recently but again, I made it and he sat down, lasted two seconds at the table and asked to get down.

I notice that he just eats less and less and so much food is getting wasted.  Going to cut back the portions.

I do know that he eats well at her place and a large amount.  It's fine.  I just feel like we ought to be doing our bit with feeding our kid and having family meals...but it's mostly while he's watching his bedtime show that he's 'snacking' and then going to bed and DH wants to cut that out.

[~inbalance~]

I found a bread with no sugar, no additives and it's whole grain...that catch is that it lasts about 2 days and then it molds

What bread are you buying?  We have been buying Stonemill which is preservative free and I keep it in the fridge or else it goes moldy, but in the fridge it will last until we use it all up.  Can you freeze half the loaf if you won't go through it that quickly?

I get wanting to have the family meal thing too, and I think that as long as you are sticking to having that ritual every day then it shouldn't matter so much how much he eats since it sounds like he is eating well otherwise.  For us it's more about reminding him that he has to join us for dinner (even if he doesn't eat) and he can't just get down and go play until we're all done.  Not always an easy task, but we stick to that and he's getting the point (obviously some nights are better than others ).  It's probably more about changing our perspectives rahter than trying to overcome the pickiness. 

[~*Nicole*~]

I get wanting to have the family meal thing too, and I think that as long as you are sticking to having that ritual every day then it shouldn't matter so much how much he eats since it sounds like he is eating well otherwise.  For us it's more about reminding him that he has to join us for dinner (even if he doesn't eat) and he can't just get down and go play until we're all done.  Not always an easy task, but we stick to that and he's getting the point (obviously some nights are better than others Roll Eyes).  It's probably more about changing our perspectives rahter than trying to overcome the pickiness.

I am kind of at this point. Teach the ritual and hope she learns the value of eating together as a family. Offer the main family meal each night and hope she starts to "dig in" at some point. I figure if I offer, she has the opportunity to eat what she wants/needs and so long as I am not providing her with junk as substitutes, force feeding her, etc. then I believe no harm can come from allowing her to regulate what she needs. I am thinking this will lead to less food problems down the road....or at least I am hoping!!

[Erin M]

At that age, neither of my girls were big dinner eaters.  If he's eating a good breakfast and lunch (which it sounds like he is) I wouldn't worry. I totally remember mine eating about 4 bites of dinner and being done.  They only started eating dinner after they started daycare and didn't like the lunch. 

[~Sara~]

I think that if he's eating well throughout the rest of the day, him not eating so much at dinner probably isn't a big deal.  You mentioned that he gets some fruit and milk before bed.  What if you just made that part of the dinner?  That way, you could avoid him holding out for a later snack (it's just part of the meal) and it would keep him at the table so that you all could be together as a family.

Re: recipes...most of what we eat does involve a carb (bc that's what Aaron likes to eat).  He's not too much into meat...does Finn like meat and veggies?  I think it's helpful to incorporate at least one thing that you KNOW he will eat, even if it's adding some wild rice as a side dish or some bread and butter to go with your roast.  Just getting creative.  Even though we eat more carbs than you do, these are our most successful dishes (as in everyone eats them):

-Chicken, broccoli, rice casserole (A even eats the BROCCOLI!!!)
-Chicken pillows
-Pasta w/ marinara sauce
-Rigatoni w/ cheesy tomato sauce
-Chicken curry w/ rice (but can serve over stemed veggies)
-Grilled cheese & tomato soup
-Oven stew, aka pot roast in the oven
-Chicken enchiladas w/ green chile sauce (though, I make a cheese enchilada for A)

[Shiv52]

I get wanting to have the family meal thing too, and I think that as long as you are sticking to having that ritual every day then it shouldn't matter so much how much he eats since it sounds like he is eating well otherwise.  For us it's more about reminding him that he has to join us for dinner (even if he doesn't eat) and he can't just get down and go play until we're all done.

This is where we are at.  You come to the table at dinner time.  If she eats she eats but she stays there until we are done and we talk about our day and emphasise how lovely it is to spend meals together as a family!

[Mom to M&M]

I'm with Martina and Shiv and most others - BUT it's compounded because DH is almost never home early enough for dinner with us during the week. So I sit and (usually) eat with DD and DS and then reheat DH's and serve him later - and the kids usually have a bedtime snack or color at the table with him then too.

DS is still quite picky but we muddle through. If he won't eat what I've prepared for dinner (which is 95% of the time it seems) I have a healthy, reasonable alternative which I've already prepared a small portion of and which is on the table same time (so he doesn't think he's getting something else by yelling and refusing what we are having). If he wants more of his alternative he has to at least try our dinner. And that almost never happens.

As for the bread issue, we often buy a sprouted wheat or other sprouted grain bread with no preservatives, etc. It keeps best in the fridge or freezer and either way toasts back up perfectly well.

Sara - what are chicken pillows?

[deb]

You already know that starches are basically empty calories, so if he's getting spaghetti at day care that's filling him up. A LOT.

Can you send his own lunch with him? If he doesn't eat it there, I bet he'd be properly ravenous at home. Or maybe he can have a small dish of spaghetti/pasta AFTER he eats a predetermined portion of protein and veg?

But the tired thing, yeah, that's a rough one.

[Lolly]

I'm glad I'm not the only one with a toddler going to bed without dinner . What you describe is pretty much what happens here, she eats fairly well at breakfast and lunch but most days now she is refusing dinner, even things she loves. I am trying to give her more of a cooked lunch rather than a snack lunch. DD is not even wanting milk at bed time these days so I think she's just not hungry - she's sleeping through even with a total food refusal though.

She is also nap dropping at the moment so I think tiredness is a big part, I also remember DS being like this at about the same age so I'm hoping this too shall pass!

Laura

[~Sara~]

Sara - what are chicken pillows?

They'll vary from recipe to recipe, but we just mix up cut up cooked chicken, some cream cheese cut with a tbsp of butter, and some green onions, then stuff cresent roll dough with that and bake until the rolls are done.

I forgot to mention above, Wendy, that we normally always have at least one veggie plus a fruit with our dinners, which might be a good option for you guys if you and Tom are cutting out the carbs (in that you don't HAVE to make the carb the main part of the meal).

I also am of the mind that you have to pick your battles.  I know you guys are dealing with a lot right now, and if making Finn an alternative meal to what you're having is low on the totem pole, so to speak, then I say deal with the other stuff first then tackle the whole dinner thing.  It's kind of up to you guys in that regard.

HTH a bit.

[Tweakster]

Thanks guys.  He also isn't hungry in the mornings, even after going to bed without dinner last night?  Wanted him to eat some yogurt with probiotics this morning.  Refused.  Finally got him to drink his prune juice (he's STILL holding his poo) with omega supplement but he wouldn't eat.  Gave him an organic rice cereal bar and sent his yogurt to her place with some blackberries. 

Deb I hear you on the empty calories thing.  She has 3 daycare kids to feed plus two of her own and I get why carbs are easiest for her to make, and cheapest.  She's a very healthy eater by most standards, her whole family is stick thin and apparently 'never sick' and I don't know how to fight this battle since we are paying for the food there.  She makes all her own stuff, so mac and cheese she makes, spaghetti she makes the sauce, she makes quite a bit of chicken and rice, stuff like that.  She even makes her own pizza and chicken fingers.  It's something at least.  She only gives them stuff like scones and banana bread as treats, which they bake together, there's no 'junk' there and he's not getting cookies and stuff like that.  It would be really difficult to send his lunch because he would want to eat what she's serving and what the other kids are eating.

[deb]

Be that as it may, he's still YOUR kid and YOU get to call the food shots. And I get that she doesn't want to pay too much for meat, say, but if you sent something and let her be the bad guy, so she got to say "Sure, you can have some mac'n'cheese, as soon as you eat 3 bites of meat!" that's also not asking a whole lot. Just because it isn't "junk" ie candy or cakes or ice cream all day doesn't mean it's nutrient-dense food or "good for him" either.

But if you could work a compromise where he gets only so much pasta, or so much AFTER what you send (like the yogurt or supplements he won't take in the mornings, maybe?), or none past a certain time of day (carrot sticks only after 1PM or something like that), might that work?

[Lemonthyme]

Btw, I work in a bakery that doesn't use most of the preservatives that other bakeries do (no calcium proprionate for example) and bread will stale more quickly.  Ideally use it all up in a day (impractical I know) but the next best thing is to freeze it.  You could  freeze slices and toast directly from frozen or defrost what you need.

I don't think the daycare food sounds that unhealthy.  Kids need fat and as long as there are some fresh fruit and veg options too, I don't think that's wrong.  Homemade chicken fingers with your nice bread would be pretty good for example and they're a piece of cake to make.

Sorry if I've missed this but have you tried cooking with him?

[Tweakster]

Yeah he's a disaster when trying to cook with him.  He's so independent that he doesn't want to 'help' he just wants to 'do' and will get very upset with the whole experience.

So he hasn't had dinner all week, then last night DH was home and he and I had eggs with veg on the side and F finally ate his eggs.  BUT we were seated at the table and he kept getting up then whining/crying to get down, he won't explain what the problem is, he just cries 'down'.  Then if we let him down he wants 'up' and he's crying for the eggs again.  I get the feeling that he was more after the social experience and wasn't hungry at all.

When do they reliably express hunger?  I'm thinking of stop continually offering food and letting him tell me when he's hungry.  We will of course still have mealtimes and times when snack is appropriate and ask him to wait, I just feel torn between continuing to set routines with meals vs. teaching him to listen to his body.  I mean if he's truly not hungry at the mealtime should we be telling him that he is?

[~inbalance~]

Yeah he's a disaster when trying to cook with him.  He's so independent that he doesn't want to 'help' he just wants to 'do' and will get very upset with the whole experience.

Ugh, same thing here too.  T is a disaster in the kitchen that I'd just rather avoid.

[Shiv52]

Wendy, if he is holding his poo and is constipated that could a big reason why he's not eating well at times.  M can get a bit constipated and there are times she won't eat but tries to eat and faffs about and then a half hour later she'll do a poo and then can eat no problem.

Do you think he maybe just feels yuck and sluggish from poo holding? 

[Tweakster]

Do you think he maybe just feels yuck and sluggish from poo holding?

Yep DH and I discussed that this morning.  I'm sure that's part of it   After I gave him prune juice last night and almost forced him to drink it, he poo'd this morning but was very upset by the whole affair and kept kicking us out of the room.  I'm sure this isn't normal behaviour.  Tom did he eat this morning? (he stalks my posts I'm sure he'll be along any minute lol)

But he eats a load at daycare whether he poo'd or not.  Interestingly the 2yo girl that is at daycare has started telling G when she needs to go to the toilet for poo and gets Smarties afterward so yesterday F told G he had to poo but he sat on there and did nothing lol  He WILL NOT get on the toilet at home for nothing, yesterday I offered him a cookie and told him Smarties are only given out to those who sit on the toilet and poo (I felt bad about that actually...) but no way would he sit. 

I got the Sleep Talk book, my friend took it out of the library for me as mine didn't have it.  Gonna give it a read this weekend

[Shiv52]

Its good though you have something that keeps him going though.  At least if you know he goes if he gets prune juice thats a start. 

I wonder could you give it to him in the morning so he does need to go at G's house especially if he is keen to try and that might help the issue a bit?

[Tweakster]

Yeah we normally do, DH got confused about when to give it as he is now doing drop off this week.  My idea is that he goes at her place lol so I like to give it in the morning.  I think she will have better success with getting him to go on the toilet with the other kids than we will as parents at home, sad but true.

So would you continue to offer food or just let him express when he's hungry?

[nosenose]

I am not stalking, I just happened to pop by this thread as it's interesting!

Anyway Yeah he had his yoghurt and I offered up the prune juice, but he only had a couple of sips before not wanting it any more.

I feel a little bad about this morning as he was basically underway with his poo. He had done a small amount of it but not finished. He did call me in though and ask to get out of bed. It was only after this that it was clear that he was not finished as he changed his mind. He was quite upset about that, and it was the genuine kind, not the put it on kind. I undressed him and he wanted a nappy, but we put pullups on him in the mornings now. It was obvious that he wanted the nappy so he could poo in it. I gave him a choice of go in his pullup or go on the potty. He chose the pullup and got dressed with me. It was after this that he was sitting on my lap when I was asking him what's wrong and he said he needs to poo.

I feel bad cos I basically stopped him from doing it by getting him out of bed, despite him asking. If he does not do it today at G's then that means he is trying really hard to hold it in

Maybe I should have left him to finish, but we'd already been waiting about 20 mins at that stage and the day simply has to move along

[Mom to M&M]

We had next to no luck with prune juice here with DD (who has chronic constipation issues). Besides her not liking the taste (and I can't blame her, even the smell makes me nauseous), it just didn't help much. We use Miralax when truly warranted (but I don't use it daily or even weekly), which works MUCH better and dissolves into any liquid and we also find that coconut oil helps her go so I often spread it on her bread, etc.

But as for the other question, I'd probably casually offer food at snack/meal times but not push it at all - he seems to tell you when he's hungry!

[Tweakster]

I'm seeing our doc on Monday for my own issue (she called me in for some reason...that's never good lol) and I'll ask her about Finn.  I don't want to make a huge issue out of it but it is in fact, becoming an issue and I don't want to ignore it either

[Erin M]

I have a friend who had to let her ds poop in a diaper as it was the only way he'd go - he'd wear underwear aside from that, ask for the diaper when he needed to go, and they'd move on.  Around 3.5 he managed to go in the potty.  They can cause damage to their little bodies if they continually withhold - maybe just take the stress off of it for now, poor F sounds so worked up over it!

Wendy, hope whatever the doctor called you in for is nothing!