i just don't no what to do

[sarahb1983]

my daughter had been sleeping through no problem with occational early waking  bout 6ish for ages, then bout 4 wks ago she started waking bout 3-4 o clockfor up to 2 hours, she doesn't always cry tometimes makes little squeals. We've tried ignoring these noises but they keep us awake and she doesn't go bk to sleep.  She's mostly excited when we go in, like she's ready to play, we keep lights and voices low, i've tried picking her up, and shh pat but she's not upset so i don't really need to calm her, shh pat or occationally rocking sometimes wake but only when she's been up 2 hours and my backs hurting.  I had to feed her sometimes, bf and she seems to take a full feed, i've tried increasing her intake in the day but she won't take anymore, and has also started to refuse most of dream feeds, it does coincide with starting solids she's on 3 meals a day, but i always start new food in morning, i just don't no what to do, don't want it to become a habit, but if she refuses extra in the day what can i do? i also no u only respond to cries, but if she's awake 4 2 hours we not sleeping so shatted, majority of the time if i feed her she'll go straight back to sleep on her own with no interventon, but don't no if i'm doing wrong, should i give her water?  She then won't take a decent am feed, lining on 5 hrs a night max pls help, don't was to re enforce it and for her to carry on

[Shiv52]

What age is she?  I tend to think if they wake and won't settle and take a full feed and go straight to sleep then they are hungry but it does depend. 

Long NWs can be a sign of not enough A time in the day too.

Can you post your EASY so we can take a look?

[Shiv52]

I also meant to ask has her milk intake in the day decreased as she's been taking more solids?

[sarahb1983]

milk intake has decreased and if i end up feding her in the night she won't take a decent feed in the day time, she is eating more solids, she's 6 mths 2 moro so i'm going to start with yogurts and stuff i'll give u ysterdays easy
woke 7.45-up once in night but fed and straight bk to sleep had b feed but don't no how much
09.00 breakfast with rice, bm and banana, didn't take much,
10.00 nap-11.30
11.30 bf
12.00 brocholi and cauliflour
14.00-14.30 woke used shh pat to get bk to sleep woke at 16.00 took 20 mins to settle
16.00 bf
17.00 brocholi and cauliflour and blueberries
18.10-18.30 cat nap
19.30 bed asleep for 19.45 took 8 oz

23.00 dreamfeed only took 4 oz, ebm
she was sleeping through for ages so why would she all of a sudden need b feed over night, am i not making her keep waking by feeding her making it a habit, she was awake 3am-5am when i finally fed and she settled herslf

[Shiv52]

6 month is really too soon to be decreasing milk intake and it is very early to be on 3 meals already.  BM or formula has way way more calories per oz than any solids you can be giving at this stage and will not fill them in the same way.  So if you are finding milk is decreasing I would cut way back on solids until she is taking proper feeds again.  As at this stage the solids is enough to put them off their milk feed but not enough to sustain them so they end up waking at night for milk. 

Here is some info:



http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg476652
Late 5 months/early 6 months 2.25-2.5 hours
6.5 - 7 months 2.75-3 hours. Some are getting more.


I think you are reaching the stage where you are going to start thinking about dropping your CN.  At 6 months A time is normally about 2hr30 so it could be your LO is ready to have an increase.  Long NWs can be associated with too much day sleep and not enough A time too.   But if she's taking a good BF in the night and going back to sleep I would assume its hunger waking her and then the other issue is keeping her awake KWIM? 

So i would cut back solids so she is taking proper milk feeds and work on upping your A time to 2.5 and start to phase the CN out. 

HTHx

[sarahb1983]

i'm quite happy with her activity time at 2.5 hrs at the minute and i have to cut it back to 2 hrs 15 mins if she only has a short nap.  she does mostly wake at 45 mins but goes back off with shh pat relatively easy, i've only quite recently got up to this couple of weeks back she was at 2 hrs.  To be honest with regards to solid foods i've been following the weaning leaflet from hv's we've been doing solids 4 wks, still only fruit and veg and baby rice and it said to increase to the three meals, you may be right tho she does seem to prefer food to the b milk so i'll give her less quantity.  I'm going to continue to offer bm 1st although does say to swap at this point to meal then milk.  Today she's had 1 small pot of petis falou yogurt with a teaspoon of blended strawberries and blueberries, 1/2 banana at lunch, she'll have about a tablespoon of brocholi and cauliflour teatime, occationally tablespoon of fruit pot after this.  I'll give it a go reducing it cos she's definitely taking less milk and night waking has been since introduction of solids, i'll let u no how it goes, there really isno guide of how much to give it says let baby's appitite guide u, it's confusing to no what to do

[sarahb1983]

sorry what is kwim? i agree she's getting ready to drop cat nap it's just getting her to take 2 long naps thats the problem she should be getting bout 4 hrs day time sleep? she refuses cat nap sometimes so i have to put her to bed early, how would i no when to increase activity time, is it usually try every couple of wks, it's just she often wakes after 45 mins anyways and needs to be resettled with shh pat to extend her nap

[deb]

KWIM=know what I mean.  KWIM?

I would try to extend the first A time of the day to a place where she's more likely to be tired enough to take a full nap. Can you maybe add 5-10 minutes at the end of it in her room, with the lights off, so she's awake but very low-key, see if you can extend it just with cuddles and quiet play, and then put her down when she can barely hold her eyes open. If she wakes at 45 minutes, go in there at about 40 minutes and see if you can get her to resettle before she wakes fully: if she uses a pacifier/dummy, re-insert it, or pat her back and shh, avoid eye contact as much as possible. If she's short-napping all day, make sure her last nap is far enough before bedtime so again she's properly tired, but if possible not too OT. This is a lot harder to do at the end of the day, which is why I'd try with the first A time and first nap before trying to tweak the end of the day.

Is she teething? This can make it hard to stay sleeping past 45 minutes is pain is an issue; you can try giving pain meds a few minutes before sleep time and see if she sleeps thru on her own, and if she does, you can make an educated guess that pain is part of the issue.

[sarahb1983]

i gave her pain meds all day yesterday cos wondered if she was teething but doesn't seem to make a difference, i think she is teething but seems on off and still no sign of anything!  I've had 2 days identical wake up time and activity time and 1 day she slept for 1 hr 30 and the next only 45 mins she's relatively easy to get to sleep most days.  if she only has 45 mins i'll knock 15 mins off next activity time, she goes to sleep most of the time no problem, i'm worried if i go in at 40 mins that will be 1 of the days she won't wake and i'll disturb her, i'm hoping she'll grow out of it cos very sporadic, we had weeks of long am nap with no waking then she's waking at 45 mins again all the time, she can have a long am and pm nap with activity time at 2.5 hrs just no consistency.  what would u suggest for quiet play cos i've heard books r 2 stimlating.  2 day she had 45 mins this morning, i tried for 40 mins 2 get her bk 2 sleep but unsuccessful then asleep 2.45 mins later, woke after 30 mins, ot i think did not go down easy, only took 15 mins to resettle, up for 5 asleep no probs 7.15

[Shiv52]

waking at 45 minutes can be a sign of UT so they are tired enough to go to sleep but not tired enough to stay asleep when they reach that light cycle of sleep.  Also being unable to extend it is a sign more A time may be needed. 

In your EASY you first A time was 2.15?  Is that normal? Have you tried upping it to 2.5? 

[*Kara*]

I also think she needs more A time during the day as she moves to drop the CN... it is a messy one to drop though  

as well, drop her solids intake.  My DD was the same, eager for food but she stopped drinking her milk abruptly...

Which country do you live in?  As a general rule, it takes baby a little closer to the 8-9 month mark to be able to handle three solid meals a day without it affecting milk intake too much... And solids before milk shouldn't happen until closer to 10 months when baby has a variety of foods in his/her diet. 

[sarahb1983]

i live in england and info given by health visitor in weaning pack.  She doesn't have much quantity but her tum is little so i'll reduce i hope that helps.  She's up to 2 hrs 30 minutes activity time for all naps at the mo, will try to increase in 10 min increments, she generally doesn't wake at all when she's put down between 7-7.30 cos she must be tired enough, i'll do anything to stop the 45 min wake ups they do my head in, i didn't realise she'd still go to sleep no problem if undertired so thanks

[*Kara*]

Let us know what happens

[sarahb1983]

was up 4 2 hrs again last night 4-6am, i fed her but she didn't go back to sleep ended up doing shh pat.  she only took 3.5 oz of dream feed tho, but did have 8 oz at 19.00.
my easy for yesterday was don't no when woke 08.15 was awake so bf
09.00 small yogurt with fruit
11.00 nap 45 mins could not get bk to sleep
12.00 1/2 banana
14.30 nap woke at 30 mins shh pat for 20 mins woke at 16.30
16.30 bf
17.30 tbspoon fruit puree
19.00 8 oz bmilk
19.15 asleep
23.00 3.5 oz ebm
04am b feed
06.00 back asleep
08.15 i woke and layed awake happy in cot
should i be waking her at 7am?  Cos she's been up in night we all shatted and lying in later than usual.  Today we tried extending awake time to 2 hrs 40 mins she didn't make it and was screaming, need a few cuddles and hand on her chest, also woke after 20 mins but resettled herself in 10 mins.  Problem we have is we don't always no what time she woke cos she'll happily lay awake and not make a sound

[*Kara*]

I did notice that your previous post about her EASY included broccoli and cauliflower for all of her meals - both are extremely gassy and I would actually hold off on offering them until closer to 8 months for this reason... even at 11 months, my DD toots up a storm with one serving of broccoli in a day.  As well, half a banana is a fair amount and this could cause constipation... I would give no more than a 1/4 of a banana and not everyday.  Another fruit to be careful with is applesauce - it can also cause constipation..

That first nap at 11am - That would be a 2 hr 45 min A time for her... After a long NW of 2 hours, I would try cutting her A time back to 2 hours and see what sort of nap you get. 

Remember that A times are based on a full night of sleep and a nap of over 90 minutes... anytime there is less/disturbed sleep, you need to decrease the A time to keep baby from getting OT.

The nap at 230pm was clearly OT.  When baby wakes at 30 mins, they haven't even made it through a full sleep cycle - signalling overtiredness. 

I wonder if her NW are the result of a big accumulation of OT - it's not uncommon for an overtired baby to have trouble returning to sleep around 4am as this is when there is a huge drop in sleep hormones...

I would maybe stop trying to follow EASY by the clock for a few days and just put her down when she seems to be tired.. fit her feeds in where you can - even if it means a BF before a nap - just break it from the sleep part by changing her bum in between the feed and into the crib.