Doing EASY with your second: Transitioning to 4hr

[kellyincali]

Hi everyone!

I used this board as a resource for my first, who is now 22 months, and now I'm back for my second, Hank, who is 4 months. I'm so glad it's still here!

I started Hank out on EASY right away and life was awesome. The only glitch was when he got sick with a cold at six weeks and couldn't lie flat to sleep for naps or at night. That was when I started wearing him upright in a ring sling for naps. His night sleep recovered and he transitioned easily to his crib from my bed. We were doing a 3 hour EASY with the only exception being he would take his naps in the ring sling during the day, which was fine because my toddler and I could go places while Hank napped (I knew this was AP when it was happening, but the payoff was a happier toddler, so it was worth it). He put himself to sleep at night and would sleep from 7PM to 1AM (sometimes 2!!) and wake up routinely around 7AM.

Then, he turned 3.5 months and it all went out the window. Now he won't stay asleep for longer than 45 minutes in the ring sling for naps and no longer than 20 minutes in his crib. His nights that were so awesome are now riddled with NWs. After re-reading BW:SAYP I know that he needs to transition to a 4 hour EASY, but I'm torn about where to begin.

Tracy says to start with the daytime sleep and the nighttime sleep will follow, right? That would be a great place to start. Get rid of the ring sling, get him napping in his crib and he'll sleep better at night. The problem is my toddler... I don't know what I should do with him while I spend 30+ minutes getting Hank to sleep.

So, my question is, has anyone worked on the night sleep first (soothing with a paci, putting to bed earlier, PU/PD)? Getting Hank to sleep better at night would be easier since I wouldn't have to worry about my toddler, but I don't want to spend who-knows-how long getting the night sleep situated if it's not going to help the napping situation... or even help with the night sleep situation. Catch my drift?

Or is there something else I should try first? Keep the ring sling since it doesn't bother me, but stretch out the A times (do the 15-day plan Tracy has in the book) to get to a 4 hour EASY? I don't know. I'd love to hear from anyone and everyone with a suggestion! I'm sorry for the novel... hopefully you made it this far!

Our day as it stands now:
E: 7:30am
A
S:9:45am
E: 10:30am
A (he starts acting tired around 12:15pm, but my toddler goes down at 12:45, so Hank has to wait)
S: 1:00pm
E: 1:30pm (He actually gets a full feeding here)
S: 1:45pm
E: 2:30pm (not as full of a feeding, but I'm trying to be consistent with the EASY routine)
A
S: 4:30pm
E: 5:00pm
A
E: 6:15pm
S: 6:45pm

I used to DF at 9:30PM, but now he wakes up before that, so I haven't done it in awhile.

[suzannemoore]

Hi there Hun,

I am in almost the exact same boat that you are.  My oldest now 4 was a dream to get on EASY.  He was always a good sleeper.  My lo, now 5 months is doing the exact same thing.  SHe is a short napper during the day and her NWing is getting out of control.  I am trying to transition to the four hour EASY, but I am BFing and she seems to have a snacking problem (another problem in itself).  I am lucky if she will take more than a 45 min nap during the day and now she will not self soothe.  How are you getting along?  What, if anything seems to be working for you?  I would love to try to help!!  On a side note, when my lo was a good sleeper during the night she did seem to nap a little better during the day, but I could not tell a huge difference.  Let me know how you are doing!!

[kellyincali]

One of the best things about this forum is hearing, "Me too!" from other people. Thank you for your reply, Suzanne.

Well, it's only been a day since I posted and in the last 24 hours we've gone from some extra abnormal NWs to waking every 90 minutes from midnight to 7am. I know that he can self-soothe because I put him in his crib awake last night at bed time and he passed out on his own without any crying... so I'm not sure what's going on the rest of the night. He eats ravenously during some of the NWs and others he just uses to fall back asleep. Today he's only eaten at 7am (which was a snack) and wasn't hungry at 11am. I'm hoping he'll be hungry at 3pm, but we'll see. I'm thinking that he's starting to get most of his nutrition at night... but it's hard to tell since I'm BFing also.

I think what I'm going to work on is getting him to start eating more during the daytime at 7am, 11am, 3pm and 7pm like Tracy recommends. Then at night I'm going to offer a bottle with only a little breastmilk to limit how much he's eating. (He hates taking the bottle and hasn't done it yet. I figure if he's hungry enough, he'll take it, which I know sounds cruel, but I went through this with my oldest and the NWs never resolved themselves and he didn't start sleeping through the night until we Ferberized at 13 months. It was hell, but it worked.) Hopefully I can make sure my LO's hungry enough to eat tomorrow morning, because I think that's what our problem stems from... or at least it's an easy place to start.

What definitely isn't working for us (at least not yet, anyway) is trying to get him to sleep as much as possible during the day so that he's not OT and has an easier time soothing himself during NWs. Many sleep books I read for my first child said that "sleep begets sleep" in babies, so that's what I've been trying to do for the last day. It certainly didn't pay off last night, but maybe it takes awhile to take effect. Or maybe the bottle feeding at night will make him hungrier during the day and thus sleep better at night... I'm not sure. What do you think?

Do you have a plan of action? I'd love to hear it if you do!

[suzannemoore]

My plan right now is to tackle the daytime sleep.  I really feel that if we get this under control the NW will get better.  SHe also is teething which I am sure is making it more difficult.  My problem is that I dont think my lo is taking a full feed at feeding time which causes her to be hungry when it is time to sleep, so I feed her before naps, and then she is not hungry when she wakes up and the cycle continues throughout the day.  I will let you know how things go.  Today was an absolute train wreck so I am going to bed early.

[kellyincali]

I did that EXACT SAME THING with DS1. What I did to fix it was feed him when he woke (which was never very much since he practically nursed all night), then I fed him three hours later, about an hour before he was supposed to go down for his nap. He was on a 4-ish hour EASY. Then I fed him when he woke up from his nap. And fed him again three hours later. So on and so forth. Then the next day, I did the same thing, but fed him at 7am, then 2.5 hours later, 1.5 hours before nap time. Etc. Etc. Until he was eating after his nap. Some days were better than others, but all said I think it took about two weeks to get on a true EASY, instead of an EAEASY. I can imagine this being really difficult with two LOs, but I thought I'd let you know what worked for me the last time around. I'm interested to see how things go for you.

[deckchariot]

We did nighttime sleep first....same reason - I can't stay home for naps with an older bub.  I worked to stretch out EASY to 4 hrs during the day, but if/when she napped for 45 min, we just went on with our day.  If I was home, I'd pop of video in for dd1 and try nap extension, but it didn't work most of the time.  We too had the issue of more NFs for calories, so just last month we started pu/pd to wean those and get down to just 1 NF.  Her naps got better on their own over time even without me doing nap extension.  We also did naps in the sling for the first 3 mos (due to reflux), I went to rocking to sleep and then independent sleep - again starting with nighttime and doing what I could with naps.  It's really hard to follow EASY to the letter with 2 bubs - we worked on the feeds first and then hoped for the rest to fall in place.  And honestly, sometimes I "need" dd2 to take a short nap because I have to take dd1 somewhere.  I'm learning to be more flexible.

[suzannemoore]

Hi there, thanks for the response.  That does make more sense.  My older one is 4 and very much wants his mommy during the day.  Last night we had 4 NW's two of which I wound up feeding.  I really feel like she is try to get in most of her calories at night because she just is not nursing well during the day.  This part has been going on for about a week.  Could it be teeth doing this??

[suzannemoore]

Oh, Kelly I will work on the feeding during the day to see if I cant get things under control that way.  I was thinking about that and wondered if it would work.  My problem is that I never know if she is really getting enough as she never seems to be satisfied completely after feeding and she has such a short attention span that she can not nurse for more than 5 minutes.

[kellyincali]

Deckchariot,

THANK YOU! That is exactly what I wanted to know. This 2 LOs thing is certainly a balancing act.

[deckchariot]

that it is....as I type while literally balancing dd2 on my leg because she's ready for a nap, but we have to do a pick up dh from work run, so she has to wait   I'm told it gets easier with 2 as they get older.  How are you getting on?

[kellyincali]

Well, it seems we have the NWs under control, but I don't think it was anything I did. They just kind of... disappeared. Probably because he's sick, so I stopped with the PU/PD for his afternoon nap and am back to APOP, which I am not happy about, but I'm not going to do it while he's ill, yk? But, he's napping regularly in the sling and sleeping from 11pm to 5am. *sigh* I'm planning an all-out PU/PD marathon after he gets better. I have my MIL lined up to watch DS1 so I can get DS2 napping in his crib. I figure that's the best and easiest way to do it.

[deckchariot]

you can join us on the support thread for pu/pd as we are currently doing it for NWs with our dd2.  And you are right not to do it when he's ill.  {{{{hugs}}}}}