28 minute waker - is this OT or UT?

[ZacsMumme]

I am wondering if those 28min naps are really just 20 and UT ie waking GeForce in deep sleep and just having a micro map... With all that chatting I still think she is UT. Can you post your latest easy including solids, I wonder if these are affecting her naps.

[*Kara*]

I agree 100% with Sara on both parts - chatting before that nap is UT for sure.  OT baby would scream, not chat.  Or, she could be UT, chats away for a while and ends up falling asleep when OT and then short naps??

How old is she now?  Solids 3 times a day is generally not happening until 8/9 months... I found that DD took about a month after each meal added to add another one... so once per day at 6 months, twice per day at 7 months, then she was about 8.5 months before the third meal was consistent.

Having food in a tummy can make it really hard for baby to settle well - especially in the first part of the evening.. the little belly is left digesting and it can wake them up.

[jlsst190]

Wow, ok so many things to consider here...

Ok here was todays EASY.

4AM - E 4oz
6:45 Wake (and tried to give a bit of a bottle around 7:30 to attempt to keep close to schedule)
        Fed solids at 8.
8:45 S - 28 mins (up for about 40, then started to cry DH pt/sh back to sleep for about 30)
11:15 E (Only 4 oz)
12:30 S (We figured she was OT and needed to go down sooner since she was up so much during time in crib.)(Stirred at 28, but barely then stirred at 40ish but barely and up at 1hr 6 min, I use a stop watch.)
1:30 A - up and just held her/playmat   
2:30 Fed solids b/c of short A time earlier and wasn't able to then more A time till catnap at 3:30. (My son was sleeping so I got her ready for nap, sleep sack, and walked around then sat on couch and her eyes got very heavy and as I walked upstairs her eyes were closing, I put her down she was up and fell asleep almost instantly, slept for 28 mins.

I assume she is up until bath and bedtime, which I will start at 6:30. I may not give her solids at dinnertime (5:30 usually for her) b/c of what you said about maybe she isn't ready, I was doing it b/c of her reflux and hoping a fuller tummy would get her to sleep better, oops!!

So that is my EASY so far today, I don't have a typical EASY this past week as we have been a mess!

Did that help any?

Thanks so much for taking the time to help us, we so greatly appreciate it!!

[jlsst190]

OH I forgot, she is 5 1/2 months, 6 months on Dec 3rd!!

[*Kara*]

So she is about 5.5 months old now?  If so, her first A time is too short for sure... should be around 2.5 hours now

===========
LOL - just saw your update with her age   So yes, we need to up that first A time for sure... my DD was doing 3 hours at her age followed by a lovely 2 hour nap   Ahh, it was heaven!

I would cut solids down to once a day immediately.  She shouldn't be eating more than a tablespoon or two at most in total during that one offering either.  Her tummy simply is not ready for that much solid food yet.  She has her whole life to eat real food, so stick to bottles for a bit

Have you had a look at some typical routines for her age group?  I have attached the 4-6 and 7-9 links for you to look at

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164029.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0

[jlsst190]

I feel horrible!!! I can't believe I could have been hurting her by feeding her so much food! UGH!!!! OK, so I did not feed her again today and she will only eat once a day for a while, at least another month. (Is there a better time of the day to feed her?) Wow, I feel so stupid, I have a 2.5 year old who slept perfectly, of course after I taught him through EASY, so I have done this before, but you never would have known!!

The last 8 weeks of ear infections have really thrown me for a loop and I think Addison as well. I hope I can turn this around with all of your GREAT advice! We will try for 2.5 hours tomorrow morning and see how that goes!

Though I am not expecting her to have a perfect night tonight, I am hoping that I can start to turn this around.

Thanks so much and I will be posting about our day tomorrow, I am sure! (I just put her to bed about 20 minutes ago and we hear her crying already, she is trying to self sooth now with a small cloth we giver her, and talking to herself?!! ....)

[*Kara*]

LOL - I miss those little self-soothing babbles   My DD used to do it when she was younger too... just little "ooh, bah" type sounds... if she isn't crying - leave her to it... it's better than having to listen to a high pitched mantra

Don't feel bad about the solids - so many moms do the same thing... I know I was waaaay more excited to start solids than DD was and it took a while for me to relax about it too...

I always did meals in the the order of what we would eat them in... so intro after breakfast first... the reasoning: if there is a reaction to any new food, you have the rest of the day to see it and let LO get over it before going to bed (in case it messes with naps - tummy upset etc).  When she was ready for a second meal, I offered after lunch - to allow a good portion of the day in case of tummy upset etc... then we started an offering after her late PM bottle (dinner-ish)... by this time, she had a wide variety of foods that I knew were totally fine so no real concerns with upset tummy...

2.5 years is a long time ago!  And all babies are different - he may have been a good sleeper even without BW

[ZacsMumme]

waking GeForce in deep sleep

LOL opps I meant before not GeForce! Ipad grrrr

And the solids thing it just one of those things. I was giving Zac too much dinner too late around 7months and had no idea it was the reason for our ENW until I pulled back. These things are tough and some LOs cope better than others...sometimes it is trial and error

[jlsst190]

So was this a coincidence or not??? I hope not!!  She slept from 7PM with a little crying, and it wasn't really crying, right around 8 and all the way through till 6AM!!!!!! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAAH Of course I was up at 4:30 staring at the monitor and couldn't sleep, but I will take it!!! I am so excited! I hope it was not a coincidence, and it was the food that was hurting her!!!

So she was up at 6, and down for her first nap at about 8:30, she made it past 28 min, (DH said she stirred, but that was it!) but then up at 45 mins, talking talking talking, then messy diaper, so we figured it was over, but I pt/sh and got her back to sleep for about 15 mins, which wasn't much but something. So that nap wasn't perfect, but sort of better, right?

I need to put her back down here shortly for nap # 2, and we will see how that goes. Fingers crossed!

I assume it may still take a few days to see better results, but I am thrilled with how last night goes, oh I hope it wasn't a on night thing!!

Thanks so much!!

[*Kara*]

Of course I was up at 4:30 staring at the monitor and couldn't sleep, but I will take it!!!

LOL!  I did that same thing for months after our fight with EW at 5am   I used to be a ball of stress with any tiny noise that might wake the baby

EXCELLENT night   Fingers crossed that it only takes a few days/week to get her naps sorted now

[jlsst190]

I may be heading towards the looney bin soon! AHHHHH!!!

I now DREAD the naps and the 28 minute mark! I have tried everything, at least I feel like I have. I pushed her A time, to 2 1/2 hrs, up at 28 mins, I did 2hr 15 mins, up at 28 mins, I tried putting her down even earlier, up at 28 mins!!!! AHAHAH And she won't cry, she just talks and talks and talks...and then will cry a little, so I go in and pt/sh. And if I try to put her  down earlier I feel like she fight hers naps more, so she may cry when I take her into her room and she see's the crib. So then she is up crying or fighting the nap and doesn't fall asleep right away.

We gave up the pai 2.5 weeks ago, can she still 'remember' it and not able to self sooth without it? Sometimes I just want to find one and put it in and let her get a full 2 hour nap like she use to! AHHHHHH!!! (No I haven't but knowing she was taking longer naps with a replug at 30 or 40 mins before, makes me more crazy now!!!)

Our nights are ok...not through again like the first night but not up 3 times so it is better. It is just our naps which have me a bit crazy!! Anything else I should try?

I feel like I could leave her up there to talk for an hour or so, and sometimes do and then only have time to feed her and she needs to go right back down as she has used up her A time.

Kara, as I am typing this, I see your little month counter (whatever it is called) and I see you have a textbook baby with an angel's halo and I want to cry!!! I am so jealous! Good for you!!!

Anything else I should try for my so not a textbook baby!?!?!

[ZacsMumme]

Okay hun, so how old is your LO now? Is your LO touchy or spirited? Can you post a typical EASY (maybe yesterdays) so we can see a current day. Lets get those naps sorted once and for all

[jlsst190]

Ok, so my LO is 5 1/2 months (plus) old, she will be 6 months on 12/3.

Here is a 24 hour EASY -

E 6:30 Bath/Bottle and Bed at 7.

E DF 10PM (was up screaming at 9:45, and then again at 12:45AM) then slept throug till 6:20AM

E 7AM 5.5 oz
      8AM Solids (very small amt of oatmeal, stopped feeding so much as we think it was hurting her belly, maybe some   
      constipation!)
S 8:45 - easy to sleep, but up at 30 minute mark, was up till the 55 minute mark, did not have to go in and fell back asleep for another 30 mins. Got her up at this point, which was 10:10AM.
E 11 AM 5-6oz

S 12:30 (was fighting going down, when finally asleep up at 28 mins and then I had to go in and pt/sh until back asleep for 15 mins, and this continued, never really got a good stretch of sleep after the first 28 mins.) Got her up at 2:15 ish

E 3PM - 5 oz (Always offer 6)

A - is always either me holding her, layin on play mat, sitting in bumbo watching brother play etc.

S - Catnap 4:15 - 25 mins.

A - 6:30 bath and wind down

E - 7 PM took 8 oz (screaming at 6 and gave two more) was out at the bottle but up once I got up to put in bed, she slept through till 4:30 when I fed her 6 oz.

E - 4:30 AM 6 oz

Was up at 6:30 and I did feed her again at 7:30, she took 4 oz and then a small amount of solids this morning.


When I put down for her nap, I put her in a sleep sack, her room is as dark as I can make it, we play a lullabye CD and do the same routine for each nap. Today when I would pt/sh her she would fall asleep but she would jerk almost once a minute, is that normal? I kept having to hold her arms down. We use to swaddle her and when we took paci away we figured she needed her hands to self soothe, I assume that was the right choice, but maybe not?

[*Kara*]

I wonder if she is on the verge of dropping her CN?  Some LO's do drop it earlier than others - mine was 5 months 1 week when we dropped it cold turkey after a week of battles and night wakings.

Also, I am wondering if she is giving cues to drop the DF?  Waking before you normally do it is a sign... it could be disrupting her sleep more than helping it at this point.  I would maybe not do it one night and see if she wakes for a feed during the night.  I suspect she will, but it will be 1-3am and much easier to get her back to sleep than it would be at 4/5am.  Could be worth a shot.

[jlsst190]

Ok, so if we decide to not do the DF one night, and she wakes up for it near 10PM, should we feed or no?

As for the CN, with her not napping well, I am not sure she can make it until 7PM without having a major meltdown! Should I expect this and still try to drop the CN?

Thanks!!