Anyone Want To Talk About The 2-1 Transition? Thread #19

[Smurfette]

Ok guys, I don't get this

She has 2 horrible nights. I nursed her to sleep from 5:30am-7:30am this morning, which is probably the longest period she slept straight through.

I put her down and she was asleep by 12:18 (a little under 5 hrs A) and she did 35 min, then another 20 and then I tried for 45 mins after that (I went that long b/c she was crying very little and just lying in the crib and/or talking to herself) and she didn't go back to sleep. How can that be enough? If I'm trying to get to one nap days then do I just go straight through and do a bt of 6?
If I do a nap, then what time and for how long?

[ZacsMumme]

Dare I ask Smurfette...think back to what last worked well, what was it? Were you doing the 2,3,4? If so what were you down to, 30mins then 1.5? Can you post it, it could be that your LO just needs a touch less A for the 1 nap day. When we started Z was doing 4.5 hours, a long nap then 5 till BT.

[lily528]

IIWM then I would do a 6pm BT on a day like that...no it's not enough but you are trying to get there...just going to have some really crummy days along the way..not much different than what you WERE having though right?  just keep trucking smurfette...get your lo down by 6 pm and hope for a better day tomorrow...let some time pass being consistent...i can almost promise you you WILL start to see a difference...

[Smurfette]

The thing is that we were having great nights, despite the 30 min naps. Wed. Nov 2nd is the last time she STTN with no wakings.
That was also the day the the morning nap was 45 mins for some reason. That was 4.5hrs A in the morning with a  11hr night, up at 5:30.

On Fri. Nov 4 she did almost 2hr nap, but that was in the car. I accidentally did a 6hr A time and she took a 20 min nap. I knew she couldn't survive on that so I threw her in the car with the intention of her only going 30 mins but she woke and then went back to sleep for another hour and 20 mins.

Before that, the last time she took a nap longer than 30 mins was Oct.19th. That whole week we were doing A times of around 3 hrs and getting generally an hour or so and anywhere from 30-60min for the PM nap. But that was also the week she started having BMs in the middle of naps and then would wake up and sometimes resettle and sometimes not. The next week (Oct.24) I noticed she started fighting me nursing before bt and then later on Wed, I saw that 2 molars had the little white dots (they still haven't cut though).

I don't know if that answers your question Sara, I kinda went backwards in time.

[ZacsMumme]

mmm so do you think, after all this that maybe these molars are part of the reason for the rubbish naps and NW? If she has always been a bad teether then it could be this causing some of your problems?

I totally agree she needs more A time than 3 hours,but I do wonder if jumping from 3 to 5 is just too much of a leap for her while teething IYKWIM? I know I am probably confusing you more now you are aiming for 1 nap. And for sure, stick it out for a bit, but you may find she naps a bit better if you pull that 5hr A back closer to 4-4.5 then 4.5-5 after and go for EBT for a while. 35mins on the dot is always OT for us. 30 or 40 UT, but 35 def OT. 

Just my 2 cents anyway (HUGS) honey, teething is rotten, I dont want to think about Z's sleep when these molars come, he is terrible with any tooth!

[Smurfette]

That's amazing that you can distinguish ot from ut with a 5 min difference!

We didn't really jump, I just gave you a couple of days there but we did try 4/4.5 too.

I'm curious though, if I do 4 or 4.5 and she does the usual 30-ish min nap, do I try to extend THAT one or go another 4 hours on that short nap and then try to extend the next one?
So if she wakes at 5:30 then a nap at 9:30 or 10 and then 1:30 or 2 and try to get more out of her then?
And do I stick with a EBT if its only another 30 min?

[ZacsMumme]

I can for Zac, not other peoples LOs 35mins is the time when he comes out of deep sleep, if he stirs at this time then he is usually jolted awake and cries. 30 or 40mins he usually is in light sleep and stirs awake. When he does 30 it really usually 20 but quiet for 10 before he drifts off IYKWIM.

Okay so I see she is EW too....that makes it harder doesnt it. We started our day at 6am in the 2-1. Anything prior didnt count. SO a 4.5hr A would be 10.30 at the earliest. If Z didnt nap past 12.30 I did a 20min CN in the car after another 4.5hrs and BT 2 hrs later. If he napped past 12.30 it was EBT at 6pm no earlier.

I would always try to extend the nap - esp if you are going for 1 nap which you are right. I would do anything you can to get her back down. You are really trying to reset her body to sleep for 1.5+ hours at this time.

This is just my opinion if you feel your LO is getting OT. If she handles OT well then you can just stick with the 1 nap @ 5hrs and not offer CN etc as she will adjust. BUT if she doesnt handle it that well it can start to cumulate, especially if your nights are not good for her to catch up.

What do you think.

[Smurfette]

The problem is is that she isn't napping past 30/35 mins on her own. I did wi/wo with her yesterday and today and got miminal results as stated above. And now that the nights have been horrible...like waking every 40-60mins and us going in to resettle her, makes it impossible to know which way to proceed.

I guess the only other option is to try to do 2 naps and try extending one of them so that she could get closer to 1.5 hrs of sleep in a day rather than 45-1hr...kinda like you suggested with the car nap.

This is crazy. I remember when I used to be disappointed in an 1hr and 10 min nap! Lol.

We started our day at 6am in the 2-1. Anything prior didnt count.

Can you explain what you meant by that? Did you just pretend that he didn't wake up earlier or kept him in the crib? Did he cry if you didn't attend to him?

[ZacsMumme]

I mean if he woke at 5.30 then I would keep him in his cot, or in his room in the dark. I treated it as night time. At 6 the day started along with his A time. This is the only way I could really get past the EW. Otherwise what happens is you end up PD for naps early and the cycle just repeats itself. I think Kara has also had experience with EW and possibly did a similar thing. You really have to keep that first A long enough each morning to combat the EW, and really aim for/work on (APOP if you have to) a good nap so that your LO can be restored for the rest of the day to BT or to a CN if the nap doesnt get her to BT

[clairebear79]

Smurfette - totally agree with what Sara just said.  We too, are in the land of 5.30am WU's.  Had one today after a 6.10pm BT, so not too bad but could have done with being later esp while on 1 nap.  We just left him in his cot until 6am & didn't go to him (we also set 6am as the earliest we are willing to get up).  Usually he is happy to chatter for about 20mins & then he will start to shout b/c he wants out.  Sometimes he will start to cry.  But its not an INYMC its more of a cry in protest at being left.  So we just leave him be until 6am & go in with our best smiley faces & wish him a cheery good morning.  Do you think this is something you could try?  Will your DD lay & chatter to herself in the morning if you leave her be?

BTW when I said about her sleeping 2hrs for naps - yes I do know she is short napping atm, but in time her naps should extend.  I know you are in 2 minds as to go back to 2 naps, but as PP's have all said - just remember what she was doing before.  All was well for a couple of weeks & she was going down after 3hrs & napping well.  I think this was probably down to her being OT from all the short napping prior to that.  And when she got caught up she's back to resisting & short napping again.  Do you think if you did put her back on 2 naps that you can get her PM nap to extend???  I think you have to remind yourself that she is short napping for a reason - b/c she was UT at nap time.  Of course all the repeated short naps have now caused her to be very OT.  The only way to get her out of this cycle is to push her A times.  But Sara may be right that 5hrs A may be a step too far to start with.

We also started our latest attempt at 2-1 with 4hrs A & let him sleep, then another 4-4.5hrs A before a short CN, then around 3hrs A time to BT.  Then every 3 days we increased his A time by 15mins until we got to 5hrs.  Is this something you could try if the 5hrs A time proves too much?  I think you need to give it at least a week first though before you reassess.  HTH.x

[lily528]

I will have done that too with av  I completely agree with both ladies.

Our BT was at 7 again....just couldn't get out of work to do an EBT like I had wanted but it worked out because she slept until 6:45 first late morning since DLS. I think we faired well with all that. So hoping to do regular nap time at 11:30. Poor dd is suck though so I won't push it if she seems like she needs earlier. Going to dr this afternoon.

[clairebear79]

Aw hope she's better soon Melissa.

Well ladies, DS has totally suprised me by doing a 2h 45min nap today!!!  Having said that he did wake at 5.30am & nap was at 11am & he was pretty tired out by then so he must've needed it.  Anyway, now I'm at a loss as to what BT to do?  If he'd napped 2hrs & woken at 1pm he'd have been in bed at 6pm, but I daren't PD that early b/c I think we'll get a shorter night courtesy of the long nap.  If he naps more than 2.5hrs we usually get 10.5hr nights max.  Ugh I really hope not!!!

However, I am wary of pushing him all the way to a 7pm BT since he started his day at 5.30am.  What do you think ladies?  6.30pm???  That would be 4.75hrs A time to BT.  Is that too much given he already did 5.5hrs A time before his nap?

[Smurfette]

Well we had a better night. Bt at 6, first w/u at 6:50 and then 11:50 and made it all the way until almost 5, which is 11hrs. I tried wi/wo but then I heard her talking to herself so I knew she wasn't going to go back down without some Ap-ing so I nursed and she slept on me until 8! So that's a 14 hr night! Going to go 5 hrs again and nap at 1pm. Unfortunately we have to take her for an allergy appt at 3, so I won't be able to extend it for very long, but at least the night was better!

[lily528]

Sounds like a better night but I am thinking the nursing to sleep and sleeping on you may not be a good thing and now that I am thinking about i am wondering if this is a possible SA contributing to the NW's and especially the EW. What do you ladies think?  

IIWM I would have left her in her crib til 6 especially if she was just talking and not crying then maybe an 11 am nap. Personally I find the consistent time is more important than the consistent A length. Even on days my dd wakes at 7-7:30 (so incredibly rare) I give the same 11:30 nap and still get a nice lengthy one. I would of course reasses the nap time if my dd consistently slept in that late but if it's random I think it's usually best to keep the times the same every day.

You should maybe pick a time...I'd do 6 until these EW's get under control and don't go in there until then. Like the girls said...use 6 as the start of your day no matter what(unless of course she sleeps longer on her own). How do you put her down for naps and BT?  Is she asleep or awake?  What's your wind down?  Does she settle to sleep easily?

Good luck with the nap today.

[Smurfette]

She was talking and then crying, so I assumed she was well rested enough to not want to fall asleep on her own as at that point she had slept 11hrs.
 It's the same thing that she did yesterday during her nap. My DD has never been one to sit in the dark and chat happily away to herself for any length of time. So if I leave her, then isn't that letting her CIO?

I will start the day once the w/u get a bit more reasonable, but nursing was the only way I knew how to get the day started at a more reasonable hour.