Author Topic: very limited diet - future fussy eater?  (Read 5195 times)

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Offline bjutka1

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very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« on: October 27, 2011, 13:25:59 pm »
Hi girls

Julia is 10 months old tomorrow. About 6 weeks ago her constipation has started to improve and she was able to go without suppositories but with help of Movicol. She has been on a very strict diet and Nutramigan AA. Then we went to see the dietitien and she suggested giving her a new food every couple of days then move on to next food if there is no reaction. She seemed fine for a while doing that but about 3 weeks ago, she started to deteriorate - dark circles under eyes, red around the anus, eczema got worse, loads of nwks and contipation came back with a vengence. Then about 3 days ago, she went the other extreme and pooing 5 times a day, even overnight.

The allergy team are now suggesting to go back to diet 3 weeks ago for a week and then try a new food every week. Go very slow. But then they added that she might become a fussy eater if she is on such a restricted diet.

Then her diet looks like this:
Fruit: pear, plum
Veg: potato, swede, squash, asparagus (not sure about parsnips and peas)
Grains: millet and quinoa
ProteinL: chicken and red lentils

I'm so upset for her cause she loves to try new feeds and chew on fingerfoods like little rice cakes. My heart breaks for her that she has to eat such a limited diet.

In your experience, when do bubs grow out of allergies/intolerances? Or will this always be this difficult? And will she indeed be a fussy eater in future?
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #1 on: October 27, 2011, 14:01:58 pm »
In your experience, when do bubs grow out of allergies/intolerances?

Well so far we are three years in and no luck.  I just tried her on some dairy yesterday and although we haven't seen the results out the other end, her behaviour went down the tube and I heard her overnight moaning in bed a bit (this is a kid who rarely, if ever, wakes at night). 

Spencer is a picky eater, but she has sensory issues with the texture and smells of food...but I just keep offering away, and eventually she will eat it.  She is also autistic, so that has alot to do with her self limiting of foods.  I really don't think having a restricted diet now has to mean she will be a fussy eater, and you will be getting to intro new food once a week, and her diet isn't too bad (trust me, mine used to live on cheerios!)
Heidi




Offline Buntybear

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #2 on: October 27, 2011, 18:20:50 pm »
Hi Jutka,

It is SO HARD isn't it! I just spent 30 mins in Boots going through all their snacky baby foods finding foods for Olly and feeling awful about it. I don't really want to give him things like that (the organix corn rings, oaty bars etc) as it feels like I am giving him junk food but he likes them and they give him variety and texture.

Olly is a picky eater but I am not sure if that is due to his limited diet. I try to make the foods he can eat into different meals. For example you could with the squash - mash it, roast it in fingers, roasted and coat it in quinoa maybe (never tried this!), mixed through quinoa like a rissoto - that way you are getting some variety and interest. Maybe mash it and mix it with the pear one day and plum the next. May taste weird to us but your LO might like it!

The millet and quinoa can be cooked and mixed with a fruit puree and milk to make a pudding.

BTW I would persoanlly wait more than a couple of days to see a reaction, upto a week maybe, as they can build up and like you have experienced you then have to backtrack a lond way.

Hope this helps

*HUGS*

Offline bjutka1

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #3 on: October 27, 2011, 19:23:18 pm »
Thanks for that. These are really good ideas! I see Olly is closer to 2 than 1 now. Is it still really hard with him? Has he not outgrown his allergies?

Is the dear diary thread still going? I'm thinking it might be a good idea to join...
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline Buntybear

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #4 on: October 27, 2011, 21:46:31 pm »
Hi, it is fairly hard with him although we are pretty certain we know what he reacts to (as they are fast reacting allergies it is easier to be black and white about it). We are still unsure over the fructose thing so keep a lot of fruits out of his diet but that isn't a great loss. We don't give him peanuts, sesame, shellfish or anythign that is highly allergenic either, just in case.

He got retested for wheat and dairy last week and still tested positive so no he is not growing out of them yet.

Not sure I recall that thread. Was that the one about sals etc?

Offline MasynSpencerElliotte

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #5 on: October 27, 2011, 21:53:04 pm »
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=218643.0

Is it this one?  Looks active! I might have to join in...dairy trial was a total fail, instant constipation for the poor kid plus behaviour issues.
Heidi




Offline EloysH

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #6 on: October 28, 2011, 03:37:07 am »
Hey Love,

I have sepnt months researching the questions you are asking and I am on a quest for my son with food intolerances and reflux.

In a nutshell what I have found out is this.  Food intolerance is due to an unhealthy gut that needs to be healed.  I don't think they outgrow food intolerance on their own.  I feel that the symptoms change - that's all.  They might not have mucus poos but they will have rashes and skin issues, or else it will manifest through the nervous system - sleepnesses and behavioural pathways.  I feel their guts need healing through intervention by us and they need lots of time for this to happen.  Some things improve with age of course but i think the real healing can happen in many ways/paths we need to find the right path for each of us.

For instance - my Kai has  bacterial imbalances within his gut.  He really needs more good gut bacteria. He has been on probiotics for along time but he needs varied strains, and we are looking into other ways to help his gut grow new colonies - such as kefir water and the likes of that.  We are not sure if the probiotics are absorbed or not.

My Kai also has very low zinc and high copper.  This means his gut does not have enough enzymes for digestion, he does not produce much musin to line his intestines - he does not produce enough antioxidents for a start. It is highly likely that he has leaky gut.  So we are actively giving zinc and B6 supplements to build his zinc back up so these processes can take place.  I am now looking into eating combinations to give his gut a rest - if I can.

I feel that answers are outside mainstream medicene. Biomedicene has been a godsend for us, and really allowed me to understand why are are still dealing with gluten and dairy sensitivites as well as reflux still at 19 months old.

Kai is not  a particularly fussy eater in general.  But when he is sick, or when his gut is sore due to food reactions he is extremely fussy.  So alot of it is linked to how well he feels.  He is most well when I restrict his diet to keep out irritating foods.

It is very common for the food intoleranct child to get worse with the introductions of food, as it put such a load on their gut.

We are living in a good time to have children with digestive issues - there is so much help and information out there if we can find the right practicioners. Let the journey begin!
« Last Edit: October 28, 2011, 05:12:25 am by EloysH »

Offline huntersmummyinoz

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #7 on: October 28, 2011, 04:11:18 am »
hi hun, firstly sending u some hugs. it is no easy road with a bub who has allergies or food intolerances.

now to your Qs,
i'm guesssing your LO has allergies rather than intolerances?? ds2 had no allergies but has outgrown most of his intolerances, wheat at 10mths, egg at 10mths, yoghurt at 12mths, cheese at 16mths, cows milk at 18mths, soy at 18mths. he still has issues with sorbates and salicylates, now tolerating mostly unlimited moderate salicylates tho which is a huge improvement. paed says to expect up to 3yo before he can tolerate most high sals and occasional very highs and maybe even up to 5yo for most very highs due to his low tolerance pattern to date.

now he is a VERY fussy eater. whether that is due to a natural suspicion of food (as it's mostly fruit and veg that are a problem) or lack of exposure early on i dont know but my gut instinct is that lack of exposure to new foods during his first 12mths is a significant factor. he is 20mths old now, has his regular menu items that he eats without hesitation, he will often not even touch new foods and if he does he is very wary of them (will hold it in his hand for a while or push it around his tray, eventually pick it up and put it towards his mouth, if i'm really lucky he may put it in slightly for a taste, and then decided whether or not to actually take a nibble or not).

i did lots of creating variety out of the same foods as pp mentioned, you'd be amazed of how many forms of rice we had in our house for a while! and that has helped somewhat in that he is more willing to try new foods so long as they are not a fruit or vegetable (as due to sals, very limited fruit and veg has been offered for some time now). i still put variety of things on his plate now but he is so wary that it is hit or miss (usually miss) as to whether or not he has a go.

when choosing what food to try next, i often chose things i knew would create finger food or new texture options. (eg. i did rice quite early on so he could have rice cakes, rice sticks, etc). so he fortunately doesnt have any texture issues even tho diet has been so restrictive. think about what u can make into little sausages/meatballs or even fry up as little patties etc (potato and lentil ones are quite nice) to try and get as many texture options as possible. move onto chopped fruit and veg and pieces if u havent already.

good luck hun :-*



Offline bjutka1

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #8 on: November 21, 2011, 21:06:16 pm »
Hi,I'm back. Our line has had work done to it, hence the long silence.

Since I last wrote, at least I know for sure that Julia is NOT food chemical sensitive. I can say that for sure because there is so many fruit and veg she can take without problems that are high in sals that I think I can rule that one out. (ie. she can eat apples, plums, peaches, melon without a problem.)

She defo seems to have a problem with grains but not all grains. She is fine with rice, millet and quinoa but reacted with a rash to both oats and corn. We are yet to try wheat though I really don't want to since she reacted to the above.

These are the only things she reacted to with a rash. Her more usual symptom is a sore tummy, wind and constipation. So I don't know if this means if she has allergies or intolerances? How do you know this? They say that at this young age they can't test for allergies cos the blood levels wouldn't be high enough to detect - or have I been given the wrong info?

The other problem food is meat. The only thing that worked so far is chicken. She didn't like turkey, lamb or pork but there was no skin reaction, just a very sore tummy and upset baby.

She would love to try new things, she keeps reaching out for things on my plate - it breaks my heart. But she only likes mushy fruit, if it's chopped, she spits it out. But can take whole big pieces of chicken and happily chews on them.

Eloise, when you say biomedicine, what do you mean? Julia is on probiotics too but what more can I do? How were you able to find out all that stuff about Kai's gut?
The other thing that is causing me sleepness nights (and she is up twice still anyway...) is that they don't properly outgrow allergies/intolerances but they get masked and display later in behavioral problems. Is there a big chance of this happening? It scares the life out of me just thinking about it... 
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline EloysH

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #9 on: November 21, 2011, 23:39:55 pm »
yay to no chemical sensitivity!!!!!  ;D ;D ;D

Quote (selected)
The other thing that is causing me sleepness nights (and she is up twice still anyway...) is that they don't properly outgrow allergies/intolerances but they get masked and display later in behavioral problems. Is there a big chance of this happening? It scares the life out of me just thinking about it... 

Oh crap  - not meant to freak you out  ::)  I think as we get older our digestive systems are able to digest foods better, up until the age of 7 our digestive systems are still developing and all the enzymatic processes are still coming into full force.  The issues for me is that if there is some fundamental imbalance in the gut bacteria, a toxiticy, a mineral imlabance, a parasitic infection or something else driving the food intolerance then one will NOT outgrow it, the symptoms will just change.  This is because the root of the problem is still there.  Now I have been able to find answers about Kais gut through biomedicene.  A biomedical Dr believes that the gut is the centre of all health and is the root behind many  diseases and general ill health. They are very well versed in nutritional science and have a strong understanding of biochemistry of the body - whihc unfortunately most GP's and paeds do not.

Now if grains are in issue then it indicates to me gut issues. Grains are hard to digest and require everything to be in top shape.  I feel that if you pursued a biomedical Dr you might be able to find the reason why she can't tolerate grains well and then fix it.  One of the tests you can get done is a - comprehensive digestive stool analysis - analyses all the good and bad gut bacteria and allows you to do something about it.   Also, these people can determine whether she might have leaky gut - this needs a special healing diet that allows the gut to rest and heal -  if that is the case.  There is also the area of biochemical imbalances.  A biomed will be able to asses whether her biochemisty is ok with blood tests - Zn, Cu, histamine. Also urine tests for Pyroluria (Kai has this and it is a key to solving his food intolerances). These are very important.  If you have problems with any of these, then you basically can't produce digestive enzymes and digest your food very well - hence food intolerance  ::) and the protective coating around your gut won't be produced either hence inflammation of the gut with potential for gut dysbiosis.  For an example, Kai has low zinc and high copper, and high blod histamine.  It means that he is unable to drive detoxofication pathways needed for digestion very well, his liver is under high pressure and all the good things that zinc does are not happening.  Now we have him in zinc and B6 supplements (amoungst others) with thie hope that we will see a 50% improvement on his zinc loves in 3 months. Low zinc means you will have high anxiety, and seratonin and metatonin will be comprmised meaning crappy sleep too.  I can send you some links for further reading on all of these minerals and things.

Where are you in the world?? - I can search for the official biomedical organiation for your country - this would be a starting point for finding a Dr.

Eloise x

Offline bjutka1

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #10 on: November 22, 2011, 09:41:57 am »
Thanks, Eloise. I'm near Belfast, Northern Ireland. Would appreciate if you could send me details of someone good. We have been to see a kineziologist before who was a complete waste of time and money... I'm just so desperate to finally get some answers and solutions. Just want my gorgeous little girl healthy and well. Really excited about this and it's so good to have hope that something will work as I get very down about how bad she is.

She still wakes a couple of times a night and takes about 180ml bottle each time. She takes way too much formula than she should at her age. She is nearly 11 months old but still takes about 800 ml in 24hrs. I'm told to up her solids but I can't force her to eat more than she wants. Feeding her is a complete disaster. She starts out in the highchair but gets uncomfortable and is then trasferred on to my knee. After a while she doesn't like that either and is then fed while she is moving about. I know it's really bad and I never had to do anything like this with my son. The problem is that I think she IS genuinly uncomfi when she is feeding as eating kickstarts her digestion and she starts to pass wind and gets the feeling of needing to poo.

I think I worked out the reason for her constipation. When she eats something she doesn't tolerate, it makes her a lot windier than usual and because there is so much wind in her belly and intestine, she can't actually get the poo out and needs some sort of stimulation ie. suppository to get rid of wind and make her go. Her stools aren't actually hard since she is on Movicol but she is still straining.

We have been to see a GI who was very nice and did some blood and stool tests but I don't think he knew too much about allergies. He thought the reason for constipation was her limited diet and wanted me to extend it a lot more. He called wheat allergy an exotic and rare one so I'm not sure how much I can trust his judgement.

Anyway, sorry for rambling on. This is what the blood and stool test showed:

"Full blood count showed no abnormalities. There is no sign of malabsorbtion or increased inflammatory markers. Immunoglobulin showed only a slightly decreased IgM level with normal IgA and IgG level, specific IgE (soy, milk, cod, peanuts, egg) revealed increased IgE levels against peanuts and eggs which confirmed the IgE mediated food allergy against these foods.
Her stool was checked for PH and reducing substances and showed no abnormality, which decrease the possibility of carbohydrate malabsorbtion."


So what do you think? Can we trust these tests? I thought you couldn't test under 1 year because the levels wouldn't be high enough to detect...










« Last Edit: November 22, 2011, 20:36:25 pm by bjutka1 »
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Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline EloysH

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #11 on: November 24, 2011, 10:38:18 am »

You can trust the IgE tests.  These usually only accurate if one has been exposed to the allergins though through their diet.  There is alot to be gained from understanding that your child has elevated IgE levels.  It means her immune system us already overactive and looking to strike, her immune system is stressed.  This is very common with bubs who have underlying gut issues that need to be fixed, whether it be gut dysbiosis, leaky gut, or what not.  The immune system goes into overdrive.

The fact that she has high enough levels to have an allergy means that there is alot you can do to help her gut. 

A great book for explaining all this is Gut and Psychology Syndrome by Dr Campbell McBride.  You can also view some videos on the this reputatable site based in Australia that talks about this phenomenom - check the section of the website called MINND TV. Both of Kais Dr's are members of MINDD org.

http://mindd.org/s/archives.php/148-Video-Clips.html

I think you must know your little girl so well to work all that about her digestion. Well done!  I think that sounds spot on. For sure constipation is a very common sign of food intolerance and wind especially.  When we eat, our gut needs to break down the food. Most of these kids will have low stomach acid, and also not enoguh digestive enzymes and enterocytes being created in the gut walls.  In a child that has food allergies, it can often be a sign that the gut is inflammed in general, the digestion is somewhat compromised. If we have compromised levels of good bacteria and high levels of bad bacteria what happens is that the bad bacteria feeds off undigested carbohydrates.  Undigested carbohydrates are very hard to digest, and kids with gut issues often don't produce enough digestive enzymes to break down complex sugars efficiently.  So what happens is that our undigested foods feeds bad bacteria on the gut.  The bad bacteria hangs around growing and multiplying and creates alot of noxious gasses and wind in the gut, and then back pressure on the bowel and thus exaccerbating reflux.

There is alot to be done about this though, biochemically, we can heal our gyut through the right supplements so that our bodies can produce the right digestive enzymes and also detoxify and clear out food effectively.  Diet wise, we can eliminate or limit  the foods that feed bad bacteria and keep fodos that give the gut a well deserved break.

I will try to find a lead for Ireland.  I think I will defo be able to find an affiliated organisation in the England.

Offline bjutka1

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #12 on: November 26, 2011, 10:10:54 am »
She is extremely windy, Eloise so all that you're saying makes complete sense. Her gut flora must be very imbalanced. Will order the book you suggested today.

Is there anything that I can do in the meantime before we find a good biomed dr? My understanding is that we do need to carry out these tests before giving her any supplements. Or can we give her something before we know what she needs?

She is on Biogaia probiotic but is that the best she can take? Or are there some sort of digestive enzymes that would help straight away?

I just can't wait to be able to help heal her gut. She was up every couple of hours again last night and it's just shattering and I feel so sorry for her...

Were you able to find anything for Northern Ireland?

Thanks in advance!

Jutka
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Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline EloysH

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #13 on: November 26, 2011, 12:09:58 pm »
Hi Love,

Sorry I only just asked tonight for the affiliated organisation for Ireland but there is some stuff you can look at to get you started....

This is the affiliated organisation for the US belwo and I have clicked on their link for finding physicians in the rest of the world, they have provided more links to support groups... you'll have to ask around to start with.

http://www.autism.com/pro_danlists_results.asp?International=true

Don't be put off that this is an organisation for treating autism, autism patients have severe gut issues that are much more complex to treat. If someone  has food allergies and reflux , this is on the easy end of the spectrum for these types of Dr's.

The groups I am a part of are on facebook , you can join to to start getting information about different things, the only thing is most members are Australian and thus only know Dr's in australia.  But  there are a couple of Dr's and naturopaths as part of the group so there is alot of good information there.

So if you are on facebook, search for
"Beyond Failsafe - biomedical treatment of food intolerance"  and
"Pyroluria"   and ask to join, they are closed groups.


As for the probiotic, for now a multi-strained one is probably best, which is what you have - I think.
Yes usually you need to do some tests before taking things, however I had a naturopath that was excellent and did no tests and everything empirically, she specialised in food intolerance and got us on the right track with our supplements.  But after blood tests, we tweked everything and some things we weren;t taking enough of to have an effect. So, there is alot of merit in getting an experienced naturopath  but mine was also trained in nutrition, - they really do need good background in nutritional science in order to understand the bodies biochemistry.  You could try and search for a naturopath /nutritionist specialising in children and food intolerance/allergy.


You can start learning about Dr Campbell Mrbrides philospohies below. There are heaps of vidoes of her talking on this website and also this the main biomedical research website for Australia, where one would look to find  a practicioner. So have a good look around on this website and watch all the videos they are great!

http://mindd.org/s/archives.php/263-Video-GAPS.html

You could also do google searches for laboratories that do digestive stool analysis: - I will send you links of the tests that I have done for Kai and you can search for something similar - then you can ask the labs for links to Dr's that prescribe these tests and specialise in children.  You may find a lead that way.

These are the tests that I have done for Kai:
Bioscreen
http://www.medcom.co.nz/pdf/Bioscreen%201_10.pdf

Health scope Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis
http://www.healthscopepathology.com.au/html/functionalPathology/cdsa.shtml

Pyroluria - Kai has this condition as well as low zinc, high copper and high blood histamine. These tests are usually done at the same time as the urine test and called "the pfieffer index".
http://www.safelabs.com.au/urinary_kryptopyrrole_testing.php


Here is information about what pyroluria is:

http://hellcat.hubpages.com/hub/Pyroluria-Do-you-have-it

This is the guy who has pioneered biomedical research worldwide there may be links to practicioners on his website:
http://www.walshinstitute.org/Nutrient_Power.asp

HIs book will be excellent by the way.

Plus there is another document i can email you if you send your email address with some biomedical FAQ about the basics of different biomedical imbalances and what it means to gut integrity.

HTH xxx

Offline bjutka1

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Re: very limited diet - future fussy eater?
« Reply #14 on: December 03, 2011, 21:21:15 pm »
Hi there

Found two practinioners in Ireland on the US website for international practitioners you sent me -going to phone them on Monday.

We have had a major accident over the last week. Last friday, we were at a mums and tots group and my 2 year old son fed Julia the corner of a chocholate chip biscuit. The reaction was terrible. We had a severe flare up of her eczema that got infected and ended up in hospital. Still on antibiotics... Can't tell you how much I was consumed by guilt that I didn't get there fast enough to take it out of her mouth.

It scares the life out of me that she had such a bad reaction to such a small amount! Dread to think what the future holds for us...

Also reading the Gut and Psychology Syndrome book. Have you implemented the diet she is suggesting? No grains at all and no starchy veg? Julia gets millet, rice and quinoa and also white potato. Could these be the culprit? What is Kai's diet like? Not sure this is the right diet for us. Julia seems to have sore tummy from all meats apart from chicken, she is defo allergic to eggs(proven by blood test) and a whole load of other foods that she had a reaction to through my diet while I was breastfeeding e.g. salmon, aubergine, olives. etc.

I haven't noticed a reaction to potato or the gluten free grains mentioned above or perhaps are they the reason for our unsettled nights and wind? Or could it just be that she is digesting and the whole process is painful for her? Her nights are particularly unsettled when she wakes up with a poo in the morning... 

I just feel completely lost. Still searching for a biomed dr/ naturopath but haven't got anywhere yet.
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007