Anyone want to talk about the 3-2 Nap transition?

[oneplusone]

Yes more time to the middle A if possible. Today's BT went better despite the last A being 4 hrs. Tried for a stroller cn today, but I think it's gone for good! Hopefully this makes my life easier

[jennlynnpowell]

Hi,

This is my first post and I'm having trouble sorting out having 2 naps (how long they should be and at what times!) and not running into the next BF because the A time has been extended so much and my little guy will wake up wanting to eat (he's never slept through a feed).

He's been getting up somewhere between 6 and 7 (changes daily) so here's an example of what we did today.

6 - wake/BF
8 - solids (3 tbsp cereal, 2 tbsp fruit)
9:15 - BF to sleepy but awake so he won't wake up in the middle of his nap
9:30 - nap (goes down really well - usually 1-1.30 long - this is a long time for us - used to be 45 minute max sleeper)
11 - wake/BF
1 - solids (2 tbsps of fruit, veg and cereal)
2:15 - BF to sleepy but awake so he won't wake in the middle of his nap
2:30 - nap (again, goes down really easily)
3:15 - wake (don't know why this nap seems so short)
5:00 - BF (hungry but seems too early for dinner)
6:00 - solids (3 tbsp fruit, 2 tbsp fruit & veg)
7:00 - BF
7:15 - bed (no fuss)

We don't dreamfeed and he sleeps through the night most nights....

I feel like I'm feeding him constantly - HELP!!

[creations]

Hi Jenn and welcome to BW
How old is your LO?

[*Kara*]

Hi ladies!  I have been a mod for a bit but have just moved to Naps - will do my best to catch up with everyone and see if I can offer some advice ASAP Smiley

[jennlynnpowell]

Ooops! Sorry! My LO is 7 months and 2 weeks - born June 23. We were on EASY before the introduction of solids and this whole 2 naps/extended awake time change....now we're doing EAES (and sleeps are more like 45 minutes each!)

[*Kara*]

Oneplusone - I am in Northern Canada too

I really think you need to push his first A time... 2 hrs is just not long enough for him to be able to drop the CN permanently.  Ideally, you want him to handle 3 hrs of A time... I would push that first A time to 2 hrs 15 mins for a few days and see if that helps shorten his last A time back a bit.  I know he many seem utterly shattered, but it could well be his body clock - babies do get very set on typical nap times and often need us to push them a bit

[creations]

Jenn - your A time looks about right for his age but if you're getting 45 min naps two things come to mind
1. disturbed sleep due to introduction of solids (and possible gas or tummy pain making it difficult to transition)
2. an A increase needed.

I always feel like I am constantly feeding DS too, in the main I think that's just how it is with LOs!
That said, you do have 6 milk feeds per day rather than the expected 4.  Is he taking full feeds?  Are you offering water with solids to quench his thirst?  Do you think any of the BFs are for thirst rather than hunger?

You could try extending the A by 15 mins, that first nap could improve from 1hr/1.5hr to more like 1.5/2hr and it would also push the E a little later.

The 5pm BF, could be made a solids meal.  When we first started solids it was around 6pm but I quickly realised 5.15 was a more suitable time (more time for gas to pass before BT, longer gap prior to BT so the last milk feed is a good full one to see through the night).
E times (milk and solids) do go a bit crazy around nap changes though, you just have to do your best to accommodate.

[jennlynnpowell]

Thanks Kara. He was on the 4 hour routine but because he seemed to be waking up early to eat I started adding a small feed before naps to try to extend his sleep. He wasn't requesting it and  obviously this isn't working! How long should it take before they adapt to the new times (like when should I see a difference in his sleep if its working)? I'm going to add 15 more minutes before nap times and see what happens. I gave him dinner at 515 instead of an additional BF. Why don't these creatures come with a manual?! LOL.

[oneplusone]

Welcome Kara! What part of Northern Canada are you in? Yes, I know the morning A time is too short. He just can't do much more. 2 hrs is stretching it for him. He's pretty consistently 2-3-4 now for A times. I know it's not BW, but it's a pretty common nap schedule and actually seems to be working now. I think if I can get the AM A time a bit longer and the last PM A time a bit shorter we'd be good to go. This change in his pattern did seem to follow the 3 day rule though. Pure torture for both of us for those 3 days and now he's settled a bit. Went to sleep for BT in 5'. Last night was 45' of him rolling over, me flipping him back, him rolling over, me flipping him back...

Jenn - My LO is just a couple days older than yours. Yes, it seems like BF and solids all day is all we do. Actually it's more like 6AM - BF & 1/2 hr later solids, 10AM - BF & 1 hr later solids, 2:30 - BF & 1 hr later solids, 6:00 - BF. I made a post a bit ago about how to stay on a 4 hour EASY with the longer A time and the longer naps. Most of the responses I got said don't worry too much about staying right on 4 hour at this age b/c they are eating solids as well and shouldn't be so hungry. Here is the post http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=224694.msg2420395#msg2420395

[*Kara*]

Oneplusone: I am in Northern BC   Where are you?  That 2-3-4 works great for lots of kids - My BFF swore by it for her two girls from about 5 months until they moved to one nap... with that routine, you will find that LO will naturally shorten the AM nap and the PM will move closer to mid-day on it's own.  The move to one nap can be super smooth so if it's working - don't mess with it   BTW- if he can roll over, stop flipping him back   I was terrified when DD rolled to her tummy at just over 5 months - turns out she is a tummy sleeper just like her dad   Once they can roll, you can leave them to decide which way to sleep

Jenn -

Why don't these creatures come with a manual?!

I know, right!?!?  Would make things so much easier!  Either that or they need to come with a crystal ball free with purchase   Most adjustments to sleep times take 3-5 days at this age to see a permanent effect

[oneplusone]

Kara - I'm in Alberta, but I'm originally from BC. I'm ok with him being on his stomach but he's not. He's actually a side sleeper and can roll there. But when he's OT and frustrated he rolls right over to his tummy. I've tried leaving him bc I thought maybe he is a tummy sleeper, but no he'll start crying. So I flip him back. He tries to roll on his side again, repeat, repeat. I tried holding him on his side but that didn't work either. Oh well he didn't do it tonight so hopefully he's over it.

[*Kara*]

Ugh!  That's tough!  Have you tried a sleep positioner to keep him on his side?  Could just be some practicing though, as you suggested... just wait until he crawls and decides to practice that at bedtime   good times!

[jennlynnpowell]

Oneplusone - how long is your LO up between naps? I just took mine for a walk and he started falling asleep at the 245 mark. I ran/sang for a couple of blocks and he was still passing out so I picked him up and bounced/walked/loudly kissed while pushing the stroller. LOL! We got home at the 3 hour mark and I put him down (w/o our usual nap routine). He then proceeded to babble for 15 minutes before passing out! What a little nut. So now I'm not sure if 245, 3 or 315 was the magic time. Bah!!!!

[oneplusone]

kara - I used to use one. It was my last resort if he was super fussy. I'd flip him on his side and he'd be out like a light. So even now he likes to sleep on his side, but only his R. side. He will sleep on his back. I stopped using the positioning a few months ago when he started being able to roll on his own. I'm slowing trying to phase out all the props (positioner, swaddle) soother is the last one and he can almost get it back in on his own now so I'm leaving it.

Jenn - My LO is different, 2 hrs in the AM, 3 hrs in the afternoon, and 4 hrs before bed. He has the biggest yawn ever that he just cannot stifle no matter how hard he tries. So he's pretty easy in terms of sleepy cues to read. It is so hard to find that sweet spot. In the middle time I'd say he's getting tired around 2:30 and then change diaper, sleep sac, read a book, and into bed so it's usually 15' from when I see he's tired to him being in his crib and another 5-10' until he's asleep. I've read it takes 20' on average for babies to fall asleep so it's just trial and error to find that perfect A time... and then it all changes!

[*Becky*]

just checking in....really trying to drop this CN but failing most days mainly as we rarely get 2 good naps.....in fact wondering when you just go to 2 naps regardless. Surely it starts to cause more trouble at some point?