night schedule?

[RebekahDSC]

My DD will be 5 months in just 6 days.  When she was younger she got to the point where she was only waking once-around 3 or 4 am to nurse.  Then maybe a month ago she started waking 2 to 3 times, then 3 to 4.  One night she nursed 5 times and I decided I'd had enough.  I didn't want to deprive her of all night nursing in case she needed it, but my husband and I decided we needed to teach her she couldn't just wake up and nurse whenever she wanted.  So I started setting my phone on vibrate to get her out of her crib and nurse her at 10pm, 1am, and 4am.  If she woke and cried at other times, we would give her her paci, sit by her and touch her comfortingly, but not get her out of her crib or nurse her.  I did this for a few days.  At first she resisted, but then it got much better.  Then we cut out the 1am feed.  The first night was horrible, but then she did really well for a night or two.  Then she got sick and it went downhill.  She now generally wakes around 2am-ish and cries on and off (mostly on) until around 3:30.  This has been going on for probably almost a week.  I'm worried that it is habit now.  I don't feel like I can go back on the plan because that will just confuse her, but none of us are getting good sleep, which was the point in the first place.  Also, I don't know how I will know when she is ready to sttn.  Did we make a big mistake in doing this?  I just don't know what else we could have done.  Now what can we do?

[Bex09]

Hi, often when trying to wean NFs many Mums decide not to feed before a set time rather than feeding at set times only. That way if your LO doesn't wake for a feed and starts to sleep longer then you can see the signs of them going longer between feeds in the night.

So maybe you could try this approach now? How many feeds a night was your DD on before her illness and how many during/after her being ill? Does she have a DF and is she on a 4 hr EASY in the day? Let me know and I can help you come up with a plan if you like?

[RebekahDSC]

Thanks so much for the response!  I thought about not feeding for at least a certain amount of time instead of at exact times, but I was worried that this would only confuse my DD ("why does mom get me out of my crib and nurse me sometimes when I cry for it and not other times?")  We thus decided on set times both to train her body and to avoid the cry to nurse pattern.  However, I do hate waking her to nurse her - it feels so backward.  I don't want to confuse her, though and especially now that we have been training her that we will not get her out of bed and nurse her when she cries I feel like going back on that would be confusing, even unkind.

We stuck with the same plan during her illness, so 2 feeds, one at 10pm (I guess you could call this a DF but I often go to sleep before this and set my alarm on vibrate for it because I am so exhausted and want sleep while I can!) and the other at 4am. 

We are starting her on easy tomorrow.  She is breastfed, and I don't know how much she is taking, but she likes to eat every 2.5 hours during the day, so I don't think she's ready for a 4 hour easy.  We are basically starting with a 3.5 hour easy.  I've been getting help with this on the easy forum board. 

Because she seems to regularly wake at around 2am, my husband and I are wondering about changing her scheduled feeding from 4am to 1:30am.  What do you think about this?

I still worry though about how we will know when she is ready to sttn.  Any thoughts?  Thanks so much!

[Bex09]

You see IMO this is the problem with having a set time for night feeds, you are actually feeding your DD if she needs it or not. You may actually be waking her up for a feed when she could go longer between feeds and unless you let her sleep and just feed her when she wakes you won't really know. It may be that you are training her to wake at that set time when you feed too if it goes on for too long.

I would imagine that even with set feeds eventually when your DD doesn't need the feed she will start taking less and feeding for only a short time though. So that would be your indicator that DD is ready to go longer between feeds if you want to stick with that.

I know what you are saying about not feeding before a certain time being confussing for your DD, but it works because she will soon learn that if she demands a feed earlier than she actually needs it or is due, then she won't get fed so there is no point in waking. Really it is exactly the same as what you are doing already, in that now if DD wakes before 4am you don't feed her anyway do you? So there is not really any difference yk?

I really do think that if your DD is feeding every 2.5 hours in the day then going 6 hours in the night (10pm until 4am) is a big jump and she could well be hungry earlier than this, hence the wakings earlier. If you decide to stick to set feeds then yes a DF at 10pm and then a NF 3 or 4 hours after that sounds better, as your DD may well settle back down after the NF until morning. If you decide not to feed before a set time, it would be the same pattern and you could DF at 10pm and then not feed before say 2am. Have you tried a later DF? At this age my DD was having her DF at 11pm, you could then feed around 3am (either set time or if she wakes) and then again when she wakes around 7am. Do you wake her for the 10pm feed?

[RebekahDSC]

So we switched things up a little.  First of all, we changed the dreamfeed to 11pm. Originally the plan was to move the 4am feed back gradually half an hour at a time until it merged with the dreamfeed and disappeared.  We got back to 3am but I finally decided that it was disrupting her sleep for me to wake her so this is what we are doing now:

I still do a dreamfeed at 11pm but then we wait and see if she wakes.  If it is less than 4 hours later (before 3am) my DH gives her the paci.  If it is after 3am, I feed her.  Then she sleeps until 6 or 7ish.  I prefer it since I no longer feel like I am feeding her for no reason!  Although it is unfortunate that every night since we started (4 nights now) she always wakes at 3-something for a feed.  Actually, she often wakes just before 3, goes back down with the paci for a little while, then wakes again at 3-something.  So I guess she must truly be hungry.(?)  Although the pediatrician said at her 4month checkup that a baby at 4month should be able to go 7-8 hours - and she is 5.5!  I'm hoping maybe one of these days she'll sleep through... At least now she has that option! But what if she doesn't? I'm afraid that since she is used to eating around that time she FEELS hungry even though she doesn't NEED to eat. 

BTW, we got her on easy a couple of weeks ago and she is doing wonderfully!  She is basically on a 3 hour and 45 minute easy.  It was actually a lot simpler than I thought it would be to get her to go longer between feeds during the day.   Now we just need to figure out the night feeds!

[kellyincali]

I JUST went through this. DS2 was also sleeping for a really long stretch until he got sick, then he started waking every couple of hours to feed. Even though I knew he wasn't hungry, I'd feed him because I was too tired to think of doing anything else. I guess that's what happens when you lack a plan. I did the whole "pick a time to feed and don't feed him before that" thing and it worked for us. Kind of. I executed it a little different from the intent, I think, but now we don't have any NFs! He gets a DF at 10:30pm and then nothing until 7am. Of course, I'm sure that it will change now that I think I have the hang of it, right?

Anyway. I just planned not to feed him until after 2am, so when he woke up at 1am, I resettled him using shh/pat. The next time he woke, it was feeding time. Yes, it may seem like it should be confusing for your LO, but it worked. It certainly reset DS2's tummy and his wake-up clock.

[Bex09]

Hi hun what a great update! You are doing so well and I agree that if your LO is taking a good feed in the night and then settling well that she probably is hungry. It is all very well your pead saying that she should be going for 7 or 8 hours but each baby and their needs are different. Some babies STTN from 6 wks and others still have a NF until over a yr old!

I think you are doing really well hun. Your DD will STTN eventually, she is still only young. I used to feed when my DD woke in the night and she just went longer and longer and then dropped it herself at 6 mo. Hand in there hun!