Help Pls! 5 and half month EBF baby with sleep probs, how to start with EASY?!

[Cherry_S]

Background: 5 month n 3 weeks DS, EBF (no solid yet), Eczema, reflux, a bit touchy...and now teething. Co-sleeping with me during the night.

First I have to confess that I don't know how to be a good mum, maybe I didn't do the things correctly in the first place that lead to his sleep problem.

New to this forum and E.A.S.Y, but I heard about EASY before n want to start implement EASY to help him establish a more healthy day/night routines and schedules.

Previously his schedules were all over the place, because his Reflux, I've been feeding him on demand (used to be every 1-2 hours, now every 2-3 hours), and since he was born, he had this problem that he only takes milk for 5-10 mins in most cases except for the dream feedings that he'd take it longer, and one side. He fell aleep after most feeding, so his schedules were more like E.S.A.  

He wakes up 7-8am, and first nap around 11am. another nap in the afternoon. He is a short napper and sleep very light (even sounds such as opening a can, or hearing us burp after our meals, turn/off lights that he would jolt) He also jolts sometimes when he's awake.  

Nap time, he usually wakes up after 20-30 mins, max 40 mins. Not until I read some of the posts in this forum that I realized he probably was OT and I left him A for 3-4 hours sometimes...He probably was touchy and angry cos he wanted some rest (but I didn't know...). Also I didn't know that short naps were a problem, I thought some babies just take short naps, as long as their night sleep are fine.

However, I noticed the serious of this issue as he now wakes up many times during the night (started about 2 months ago), and things are not improving, I thought it was due to teething or Eczema (as his sign of waking up during the night was started scratching his head and ears, and then mantra. Once we started patting him, he then sometimes start crying, I always end of nursing him, to get all of us a quiet night n more sleep, as otherwise, it takes longer to settle him by rocking him back to sleep. He normally backs to sleep very soon after I nurse him, but it's now drain me out as he wakes countless times during nights I don't even get a 2-3 hour night stretch myself.

I decided it's time for a change!!

My primary aim is to reduce his night wakeups to just 1-2 times between 12AM-7AM, and regular his daytime routines and improve his naps, also reduce the times that nurse to sleep.

To settle for his nap and bed time, Nap time I usually co-sleep with him (pretending that I'm sleeping with my eyes closed by avoid eye contact with him) and pad his back or chest, hold his hands (otherwise he's start scratch his head...) and sing bedtime song.

Please suggest:

1. If his nap prob doesn't improve, how long A time I should give to him? If he wakes up after 20-40 min nap, do I force him stay in bed n back to nap (tried it, it took 20 mins to re-settle for a further nap, sometimes he's not back to sleep at all. BTW, he'd scream for 5-10 mins even though I'm padding him and hoding his hands)

2. Please suggest a sound routine that I could try to fit 3 short naps (or maybe 2 short naps 1 longer) at his stage. he usually wakes up around 7 am, I settle him to sleep 7-8pm.

3. Do I need to strictly stick to E.A.S.Y, as due to his reflux/teething, I sometimes don't know when I settle him to sleep if he really needs a snack feed for soothing n confort, or it's a habit that can be break without harm! Is it ok to nurse him before sleep if want EASY to work or it's a big NO NO?

Any advice I would much appreciate!!

  




GM EDIT: Cherry also had a thread on Naps http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=221068.0

[becj86]

Sounds to me like you're a good mum - looking after your baby is your job and it sounds like he's pretty happy.

At this age, I'd be aiming for ~2.5hr A time, maybe a little bit more, so a routine something like this would likely suit ok:

7:00 -  E&A
9:30 - S
11:00 - E&A
1:30 - S
3:00 -  E&A
30min catnap between 5 and 6
6:00 - feed, bath, bed by 7
Dreamfeed at 10ish if you so choose.

You can do EAEAS to help get calories into him but ensure he still settles to sleep without the breast (which is an incredibly hard habit to break and gets harder the longer the baby is used to it). It would look something like this:

7:00 -  E&A
8:00 - E&A
9:30 - S
11:00 - E&A
12:00 - E&A
1:30 - S
3:00 -  E&A
4:00 - E&A
30min catnap between 5 and 6
6:00 - feed, bath, bed by 7
Dreamfeed at 10ish if you so choose.

You can then be more confident he's not hungry when he's going down for a nap and you can bring the two grouped feeds together gradually til they become one feed.

I'd be resettling him for more sleep if he wakes after 20-30mins as that's an overtired nap and he needs the sleep. I'd also be trying to get him to sleep in his own bed if you can rather than co-sleeping as it can be very difficult to move a baby into his own bed after co-sleeping and the older he gets, the harder it is.

Another thing to check if he's waking a lot in the night and a quick feed is getting hom back to sleep - are his reflux meds still working? As he gets bigger, he needs a larger dose so you should get that reviewed before you do any sleep training.

[Ima shel Alon]

Before I do anything else and give some advice, we would need to know was he diagnosed with Reflux and is it under control?

[Cherry_S]

Thanks to becj86 for your advice!

Also thanks Becky for her advice on another post. (To Becky: my DS was born 6 June, he doesn't use dummy and apart from his blanket and muslin square, he doesn't have any other lovie right now)

The routine you suggested seems quite idea, but the problem is if he's not fully on his first nap time, then I have to adjust the routine for the rest of the day?

Also I just tried to offer feeding at 3pm (fed him at 2pm on his nap wake up) but he's not taking any, probably not hungry yet, so can I try to offer the milk after 2 hr A time mark(if he takes it), so he has a 20-30 mins gap between feed and sleep?

Also need help with how to help him get through the sleep transition? He always fight when I settle him for naps or night sleep, by crying or sometimes every screaming, but most time I can settle him to sleep between 5-20 mins by patting & shsh or patting & singing.

He fights and wakes up after 20-40 mins regardless if I place him in his own cot or our bed, regardless if I co-sleep (lie down with him) or not.

He takes longer nap if he's in a baby carrier (close to grandma's chest) or baby pushchair when we are out.

Once he wakes up from his short nap, sometimes he's happy and quiet, that he plays his hands/blanket etc. for around 15 mins before start grizzling, but never fall asleep again by himself. Sometimes he wakes up grizzling straight away.

If I jump in immediately after he wakes up to re-settle, he then starts crying/fighting. I sometimes got lucky that I could re-settle him after another 15-20 mins that he'd sleep for another half an hour or 40-50 mins, but sometimes he kept crying fighting for more than 20 mins until I then give up.

Knowing that he won't be able to re-settle himself,

1. Do I better jump in straight away if he wakes up but quiet? or only jump in staight away after he starts grizzling (both in the case that grizzling after 15 mins and grizzling once wake up?)

2. If I failed to re-settle him after 20 mins or so, should I give up and let him stay up and do his A time or should I continue re-settling until we finish a 1 hr - 1.5 hr nap time?

(He'd cry/shout for 20 mins with tears...I thought EASY suppose to be a no tear way? although I'm holding/patting him, he's still crying, why? Is it harmful to leave him cry for too long even though I'm there for him?)

3. If I failed to re-settle him, do I shorten his next A time to 2 hr to adjust? or extend A time to make up the time? We'll end up have too long the A time in the late afternoon, unless I adjust the bed time to 6 or 8 time when all 3 naps are short. (yesterday, he took 2*30 mins nap plus a 20 mins catnap...)

I can try to settle him in his cot, as he does sleep in his cot bed before (although I noticed recently, it's getting tough, maybe because he started getting used co-sleep in our bed!) But we'd like to keep him in the same room as us (by putting his cot next to our bed), is that ok?

Poor hubby has been sleeping in sofa in recent weeks, but he's one that thought LO can sleep better in our bed so he'd sacrifice his bed to DS! Also it's a pain to have to up for 3-4 times during night to settle/nurse the baby, so to get everyone's better sleep, we have been compromising and went for the easy n lazy way.

Regarding reflux, Doctor thought he has reflux based on the symptoms, but she doesn't bother too much as DS is putting on weight ok n also he's a happy spitter. Doctors here usually think they'd grow out of reflux sooner or later. She did prescribe me Gaviscon, but DS didn't like it at all when I tried it when he was 2 months also it doesn't seem helpful, so basically he's not a med for Reflux (I don't agree with the doc that I should try to put some sugar in the Gaviscon to improve its taste, I don't want to give too much med to him either...)

Based on my observation, his reflux during night always not that bad, it's just hard to burp him during night after dreamfeeds, so he probably has discomfort due to gas, and since his swallow function more mature now, he sometimes swallow the milk back after reflux during daytime. He still vomits milk a few times a day though. I'd say sometimes better, sometimes worse. Overall, it's towards better.

When he was 2/3 months, he used to sleep ok during night, although he woke up 2-3 times for feed, the first half night was good, he could sleep from 7/8pm to 1/2am, but then woke up every 2 hr or so.

But since he was 3/4 months, he wakes up every 2/3 hrs during whole night.

I always feed him at 10 or 11 pm as he wakes up himself around that time anyway.

Most days, he wakes up in the morning very happy, and then starts in the noon or in the late afternnon, he becomes grumpy and cranky, I believe it's due to his short naps and hence OT.

Sorry for the long post. Night time has always been tough and tiring for me as I try to meet his demand by nursing him, so I haven't had a good night's sleep since he's born... and I dont have my own time at all during the day due to his short naps, I'd company him for his first 5-10 mins nap and then he wakes up after 20-30ish...I'm quite desperate now

Also he seems cry more and longer since I started Sh/Pat him to sleep before he settles to sleep, I don't know if I'm doing it wrong or it's just his response to the change that I want to make.

He's soon to be 6 month, Sh/Pat should still work for his age? I usually starts Sh/pat straight away after place him to bed, is it correct? Then he'd cry/fight for a good while, is it ok to leave him cry whilst I'm stay with him and pat him?

Many thanks in advance!

 


 

















  


 


 







 

[Ima shel Alon]

Hi Cherry. I apologize for only now finding the time to read properly your post and get my head together to give an advice. Every time I get to the boards it's night already and my mind is all blur from the day. Anyway, lets see what we can do.

First of all, you are far from being a bad mom. I don't believe a mother who wants her child to be a better sleeper, a better feeder and happier can be a bad mom. Don't bring yourself down, making the decision to change is half way getting to the solution.

You can't ignore the fact that he was diagnosed with Reflux, this change many things in your day, did and will. I think the reason he is feeding so often during the day is because it's a comfort for him, it keeps the acid down and they don't feel the discomfort this way. Babies with Reflux are known to be good little feeders at night time for the DF or NF, because they are sleepy and their body is relaxed. Regarding the Reflux, I'd recommend you get you Ped advice again or go see another one and get a second opinion. He might be ok now with the taste of the med. I totally get you not wanting to give him much meds, but please make a conscious decision as he IS in discomfort.

*I think the jolting you mentioned still happens because he didn't learn to go through the sleeping cycles yet. Of course we all jolt in our sleep, even adults, but his jolts are actually fully waking him. To help him with that, and with stopping feeding to sleep and stop with co sleeping you need to stick to pat/shh. BUT, you need to want it, ykwim? You need to make a decision and be consistent with it, or otherwise it's going to work and you'll both have some really bad days. You need to be consistent and do pat/shh at the same way every time you do it, not cave in when things are hard and feed him or take him to your bed and most important you need to remember that you are doing it for him - to help him be a more independent sleeper, because his sleep is important for his health and growth. However, any type of sleep training will not work for you if he is in discomfort (be it Reflux, teething or eczema). EASY doesn't really work under those circumstances.

*He def sounds OT to me. You need to cut the A time shorter and aim for him to have at least 2X1.5h + CN a day. That would be a good day sleep for him. Keeping a log will help you see what A time gives you OT naps, which A time suits him now and results in good naps and which A time gives you UT naps. You should try and start with putting him down for a nap after 2.5h A time (but calculate in the time it takes him to fall asleep) and give it three days. Log how long are his naps and then we can have a look at those EASY days and think if it's still needs tweaking. 

*Breaking feeding to sleep and co sleeping is very very hard. They are both "hard core" props and it will take you time. And yes, there will be crying. EASY is not a non crying method. It's a method where you are always there for your baby and it's a method that helps you put your baby on a routine. Of course he will cry as suddenly mommy is doing everything different and he is wondering where the booby because it's sleepy time. That's what I was saying earlier about making the decision - you need to make it, because he can't (yet) and you need to be his guide.

*As the naps you are describing are OT, I'd suggest you try and extend them with pat/shh. UT naps are those which are difficult to extend, but spending 15-20min to extend a nap is lucky, I say! If he falls asleep within that time then he obviously needs the sleep.
Tracey suggest that when working on extending naps one does it for 40min. If it doesn't work you take the baby out of the room for 10min low key A time and then goes back and try again. You do this till next feeding time. After that E A time will be shorter than usual. With time he will learn to go trough the cycles himself and won't need you to extend them. But again, this takes time and patience.
Don't jump to extend naps. The best advice I got regarding this is wait till he fully cries for you. What sounds like soft crying or whining is mantra cry and he is trying to put himself back to sleep like that. If he needs your help he will let you know.

*You were asking about adjusting the day if your first nap is too short. Yes, you do adjust the day (not only with the first nap, but any nap that turns too short) and the next A will be shorter. IMO, the key for a good day is the first nap, and if you are looking for your first step, the thing you should focus most on, is that - to get the first nap right.

*On the first days of implementing the routine you feed as much as possible, to make sure that he gets enough calories during the day. But you only do it for two days or so, otherwise it becomes a prop and you created yourself a new problem You would then start to part them and not feed him every hour. You will keep him on perhaps a 3.5h gap between feeds. He should be on 4h cycles at his age, but many BF babies get to that only later.

*Sleeping in the same room is totally up to you. I know that in the UK the recommendation is 6 months. If you are all three happy with it, then go for it. But (again...) EASY doesn't really work with co sleeping at the same bed...

This is something I think worth looking at, and please let me know if you have more questions. I promise I won't be that long again:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164253.0

In the Reflux board there is also much info:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=13.0