13 month old awake for 1-3 hours between 2 and 6 am

[Bonzo23]

Hi there,

Ds2 has had some eating/digestive issues and has had bottles in the night on and off since he was 4 mo.  Now that he's finally eating a decent amount of solids I'm operating a 'no milk no matter what' policy in the night.  He was regularly sleeping through and then started nursery, caught a really bad cold, had his MMR and stopped eating entirely so I started giving him bottles again but my new nmnmw policy has been in force since saturday.  The only difference it's made is that it takes a lot longer to get him back to sleep.

he goes into his cot somewhere between 6:45 and 7:00 pm, wide awake and will chat a bit for a few minutes before going off to sleep on his own.  He then has a dreamfeed (I know - is ridiculous and I know I need to get rid but don't want him waking up even more!) at 10pm of 9 ozs.  We had weaned this down to 6 ozs but then it went back up with the illnesses etc.  

When he wakes he's furiously angry - and very tired - rubbing his eyes, and kicking his legs into the mattress as if frustrated.  It then takes at least an hour, more often 2 hours to get him back to sleep.  I give him water, and pain meds if he's worrying at his gums.  He settles down as soon as I pick him up.  The yelling starts back up when I leave the room.  

Some days he has one nap (12:30 for 90 mins to 3 hours), some days he has 2 (9:30 to 11:00 and 2:00 to 3:30).  Doesn't seem to make any difference.  I thought it was maybe because he was OT by bedtime but yesterday he had his nap slightly late - I had to wake him at 4 - so he was just nicely tired at 7 rather than a total disaster - and he was up from 2;30 to 5:00 last night.  Only difference was that he wasn't as angry - was actually giggling at one point.  Little terror...

Separation anxiety?  Too much sleep during the day?  df disturbing him?  or a delightful mix of all of the above???  Any ideas gratefully received.

[Bex09]

Hi, seeing as your DS is over a year old I am going to move this over to Toddler Sleep. You will get specific help for his age group then.

[*jazzberry*]

I would say that if he is waking up happy and giggling then it sounds like UT to me and would probably cut his daytime sleep a little. Also for most LOs, 4pm is quite a late wake up time from the last nap to be going back to bed at 7pm so I would either go for one longer nap or cut that pm nap short (say 45mins)
I don't know about the DF disturbing his sleep (it certainly disturbed my kids sleep so we never persevered) but I'd say it's probably wise as you say to start cutting that back too. What do you think?
Here are a couple of links that you may find helpful
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=80750.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=85137.0

[Bonzo23]

Thanks Jazzberry!  Yeah, he wouldn't normally sleep until 4 tbh but you're right.  Funnily enough I just outlined the new rules to dh - maximum 2 hours sleep during the day, will aim for 1.5, and no sleep after 3, will aim for 2pm.  Last night there was virtually no yelling just gurgling and chuntering in his cot for an hour.  I left the room very early on and he didn't seem to mind - and then went to sleep without me having to go back in. 

I'm changing his nappy when he wakes in the night - it's quite big.  Maybe I need to get bigger nappies for bedtime? 

Right off to wake him up - he's only had an hour today so he'll be tired as hell later but if it means he sleeps through...!

Will check out those links later on.  Thanks again
Alison

[*jazzberry*]

I'm changing his nappy when he wakes in the night - it's quite big.  Maybe I need to get bigger nappies for bedtime?

You may not need to change it if you drop the dreamfeed too. Or yes a bigger nappy (we use the huggies 12hour ones)
Good luck for tonight

[Bonzo23]

Dh always changes his nappy as part of the dreamfeed as it's so full after his 7 pm bottle!

Thanks.  He was absolutely shattered tonight.  We shall see!
Alison

[*jazzberry*]

Hi. Hope your night went better?

[Bonzo23]

Hi Jazzberry.  He's had 1.5 hours daytime sleep all over the weekend, up by 2:30pm so has been going to bed exhausted.  he's made it through until 6 am and then it was 5 am this morning but only for 10 minutes.  I still don't really think he's that UT - yesterday dh got him back to sleep by 6:30 am and he slept until 8 am!  Haven't had a chance to read those links you posted yet - will read them tonight.  I suspect he'll do slightly better on a bit more daytime sleep but needs some sleep training to help him go back to sleep when he wakes at 2-5 am.

Thanks again!
Alison

[*jazzberry*]

I think more daytime sleep would be fine too, it's just finding the balance. Glad he is doing better.

[Bonzo23]

OK so last night was awful.  He had just over 2 hours sleep at nursery and was up at 2:40 pm.  He went to bed at 7:00 and went straight to sleep (did that really cute turning straight over and nuzzling into his mattress thing he does when he's really grateful to be going to bed).  Then he woke at 10 pm - before dh got in there with his df - and was then awake until 1:00 am.  At some points he was giggling and chatting but at others he was yelling furiously.  I did WIWO with him and after going back in 4 or 5 times he stopped yelling and just chatted.  I sat outside his room waiting for him to go to sleep - then 10 minutes later he starts yelling again.  I went back in - didn't even go to the cot just stood in the door way and told him to go to sleep.  He settled straight back down and I went back to sitting outside his room.  20 minutes later I decided he'd gone to sleep and went back upstairs to bed.  As I laid down he started yelling.  It was 00:15 by this point.  Dh got up - don't know what he did to get him to sleep - I'd been through the WIWO technique with him but I doubt he followed it through.  He came back upstairs at 1:00.  Ds2 started yelling again at 6:00 am.

He's fine - happy as larry - so it's not illness.  He ate up a storm yesterday - plus he had a bottle at 10 pm so that 3 hour awake stretch was certainly nothing to do with hunger.  He seems tired to me - when I got him home from nursery yesterday he was stumbling around and pretty whingey.  But then the giggling and chatting doesn't make sense.  He's in a 2.5 tog sleeping bag with a babygrow and a long sleeve thermal vest so he's not cold.  I'm at a loss.

[*jazzberry*]

I think you've probably got a couple of things going on here. It sounds like he is starting to wake in anticipation of the df, and it may be this that is disturbing his sleep initially. Then he's got into a habit of needing you to get him back to sleep and I think this is the thing you need to work on. Personally I would get rid of the dream feed (assuming he is gaining weight well and eating plenty in the day) - at this age he shouldn't need it. And I would pick which method you are going to use to get him to settle back to sleep (wi/wo for example) and stick to it - you and dh really need to be consistent and doing the same thing as each other otherwise it's probably not gonna work!
What do you think?

[~Karen~]

I think you could drop the df feed now and he may be waking expecting it and then not be able to go back to sleep.  Also, do you think he might be teething?  How much has he been napping the last couple of days?  1.5 hours is not a lot for a 13 month old and imagine he's OT.  How long he's been on one nap for?  I'd try some two nap days to get him caught up for a bit and maybe switch between one and two naps for a little bit longer yet.

[Bonzo23]

Thanks for your replies ladies,

Well knock me down with a feather he only went and slept through last night.  Woke up happily chatting at 7 am having gone down at 7 pm (plus df).  Did 3 poos yesterday which is a lot for him so I wonder if the night before he had a bit of a tummy ache.  Yesterday he had 2.5 hours nap at nursery.  Today I had him down by 12, he woke at 1:20, I gave him a bottle and he went straight back to sleep - I tried to wake him at 3 and couldn't!  He eventually came too at 3:15 and has been a delight all afternoon.

He's definitely teething - we've had no teeth through for about 6 months.

If he wakes tonight I'll WI/WO.  I agree that he's OT but the giggling and chatting throws me a bit.  He was having 2 naps until the weekend just gone.  Trouble with 2 naps is he won't go down early enough for the first nap to fit in the second before 3.  We are going to get rid of the df - now that he's gone 2 weeks without a bottle in the night we can crack on with it.  I'll let you know how we get on tonight.

Thanks again!
xx

[*jazzberry*]

Good to hear - let us know how you get on

[Bonzo23]

He woke at 3:15.  Dh did an 90 minutes of WIWO during which time Ashley got more and more furious.  I then got up to take over and checked his nappy to find he was wet through - his vest, his babygro and his thermal vest all soaking.  Changed him and he was asleep within seconds.  He's not getting a df tonight.  And we're getting some monster nappies.

Seems to be a different thing every night.  Don't know whether I'm coming or going.