Urgent!!! So many questions

[rochellep]

I would be able to post in the success stories for my lo if it wasn't for the NW! We had be struggling with 45 min. naps for months and I was clinging to my sanity. I t was completely awful. I had tried so many things but we were stuck in a OT/UT cycle. I decided that since pat/shh wasnt working, that I was just going to have to bite the bullet and just do PD(since he was 4.5 months at the time and he gets OS so easily) So I did verbal reassurance and never left him, but it was bad real bad! Non-stop crying for an hour or more for the first day for every nap. The second day he was taking 10 min. Now he pretty much goes down with a little bit of fussing and then goes to sleep. But still he did 45 min. naps. Then after maybe 1 1/2 weeks he started taking 2 hr. naps. I was over the moon!!!And at nightime he would wake at his normal EW hour and then coo or make some noises and then go back to sleep BY HIMSELF! I could not believe it! It lasted maybe a couple of days and now we are in a complete mess with NW. He wakes maybe 3 or 4 times and the last one lasts for an hour or like last night and 1 1/2!!!! I don't know what to do!!! I am a mess, he is a mess, and I am terrified if this continues he will get into a OT cycle and do the 45 min. again. That I cannot handle again. And I am so tired!! I don't know what could be causing this. There is so many variables.

At his 4mos. shots about a week and a half ago(he got them towards the end of his 4th month) he turns 5mos. today, I talked to his dr. about his reflex and if we should increase the dose now that he weighs more and she said that is normal for him to spit up a lot if he is taking huge feeds which he was because he was acting not hungry at 3 hrs or even sometimes at at 3.5 hrs, so sometimes I would push him to 4hrs. feeds then he would take a bigger feed. She suggested since he was almost 5mos. to start giving him cereal to control the reflux a little bit. I also thought he was ready because he is already sitting up with his hands supporting himself (started that a couple of days ago) rolling and trying to grab my spoon while I am eating and put it in his mouth. So I started him on some oatmeal because I read that rice cereal could be constipating. I later read that he shouldnt have oatmeal until 6 mos. because his digestive system is not ready for it so rice is better? Anyway, when I fed it to him he wanted it so bad but it was too runny  so he would get frustrated so I made it really thick and he ate it like a little piggy and wanted more! I gave him 3 tablespoons and I refused to give him anymore even tho he protested.I gave him more at his next BF.He got constipated...surprise surprise!. At night he would grunt and make noises like he was uncomfortable. We gave in a baby suppository and he pooped later and seemed more comfortable. I stuck to giving him pears instead of cereal because I was afraid that he would get constipated again. That was about a week ago, now he seems constipated again. I'm not sure how many BM'S he is supposed to have now that he is on solids. He was ebf so he never had any BM'S before. He hasnt had a BM in 2 days. Just like small traces of one when I change his diaper.

He is also much more active now. As soon as I put him down he immediatly rolls over. He never rolls over while sleeping so I kept him in his WOOMIE because when his OT or anytime he gets tired he scratches himself on his head and gouges his eyeballs. He did it so bad the other day he had blood dripping!! So I have to keep him swaddled in his WOOMBIE. But I am terrified that one of these days he will arch his back and roll over while he is winding down in his crib( he will arch his back and try to roll over sometimes when I change his diaper and he is getting really tired) and suffocate himself. Also then other day he had almost 5 hrs. of day sleep now that he is taking longer naps, and I let him because I thought he was making up for all of his NW. That night he had another long NW so the next day I made sure he did not sleep as long during the day even tho he had the long NW.  So like I said there is so many variables, but we can't go on like this. Here is my EASY since that might be the problem.
I can't find my EASY for the night that I thought the NW was due to him being constipated...I left my sleep journal at my mothers house so it was written on a scrap paper. But her is the last 2 nights.

Friday night
bed 6:50 pm.
1 NW of at least one hour or more between 1am and 2 am.

wake 6:30 Sat.
E- 6:30 BF
E-7:30 solids
A- 2HRS. 22 MIN.
S- 8:52-11:18 2HRS. 26 MIN I let him sleep longer because of the NW the night before, a mistake I think...
E-11:18 BF
E-12:30 solids
A-
S- 1:43-4:03 2HRS. 20 MIN
E-4:03 BF
A We were out getting my dd1 glasses
Bed at 7:26pm
(usually I very strict on getting him down at 7pm on the dot, but i went out and it took longer than expected.)
DF- 10:30 DIDN'T EAT MUCH AS HE WAS SLEEPING HARD!
NF-between 1:30 AND 2
woke at 5:30 cooing at first then fussing
left him to settle, started crying, PU and tried to settle in arms standing up patting him in case he had a burp which happens often. Wouldnt settle, rocked him(which I promised myself I would never do again because it became such a prop before sleep training.) Still would not settle. Tried for an hour, letting him try to settle several times on his own. Gave up and got him up for the day at 6:30 AM. I figured that he had had too much day sleep the day before?
SO
Wake @ 5:30am Sunday
E-6:30
A-
S-8:05- 8:05 50 MIN. OT? helped him resettle 9:17-10:11 53 MIN.
E 10:30
E- 11:30 solids
A
S-12:36-2:26 1hr. 53 min.
E-2:30 bf
E- solids
A-
S-4:33-5:03 CN
Bed 6:50
Woke before DF @ 9ish and went ahead and fed him.
Woke several times during night and helped him resettle. Very unsettled.
Woke at 5:00AM kinda grunting..can't tell if constipated or can't settle for some reason...stayed up for 1 1/2 HRS !!!!!!!
I really have to figure out what is causing all the NW. It cant be too much daysleep because he has 2 2hr. naps and a 30 min. one except on the day I let him sleep extra.

I also don't really know how much solids I should feed him. I have looked at several websites and can't get a clear answer. I give him 3-4 tablespoons of fruit and cereal or veggies. He would have more if I let him.


 
 

[rochellep]

Oh, I forgot to ask..
Why does Tracy say in her book to BF then feed solids and hour later. All the websites and books I have says to BF then offer solids right after. What I am afraid I will run into is that if I BF at 7am then offer solids at 8am then will he be hungry enough at 11:00 on a 4hr EASY to take a full feed or will he snack. It would seem that if my lo BF and then eats solids right after, then he will be getting the milk he needs instead of too much solids.

[roimata9]

He could well be hungry if he's waking that often, or possibly in pain? How often do you feed him at night?
My LO has reflux too and we were recommended rice cereal after a feed to try and thicken what was in his tummy, but it didn't work, he was just as vomity. My LO gets really constipated from rice cereal, especially when he was around 5 months which was when we started on solids. He definitely started waking more when we first started solids, I think it gave him a sore tummy and he was constipated too, plus around that time reflux often flares up and he was teething. We had a nightmarish 2 months, and only in the last couple of weeks has he started sleeping through the night. You can see what I did in the thread http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=221266.0
3 Tablespoons of rice cereal is quite a lot! I only ever give it in small doses (about 1/2 T dry cereal) mixed with lots of fruit like pear, apples or prunes (probably around 1/2- 3/4 cup now he's 7 months). I find veges good as they fill him up without being acidic which affects the reflux or constipating like the cereals. I only give him fruit or rice cereal first thing in the morning so it has a chance to get through his system before night time. Lunch and dinner he has just veges (nothing starchy at dinner though) and some kind of protein just at lunch time. So yesterday he had peaches and rice cereal for breakfast; kumara, carrot, parsnip and salmon for lunch; and  silverbeet, parsnip and carrot for dinner. That means he just has the gentler foods in his tummy when he goes to sleep. In terms of quantity, I let him decide, I figure he knows how hungry he is. Somedays he will eat heaps (one day he ate 2 cups of veges for lunch!) other days he won't eat as much. i just stop when he either stops opening his mouth if I'm spoon feeding him, or when he loses interest in his finger food. How much he eats doesn't seem to affect his sleeping at night.
Smaller more frequent feeds are fine for refluxers, as you don't want to over fill their tummies. I usually feed my LO before and after each sleep (with a story before bed so he's upright for a bit) so he does EAEASY. He has solids after the first BF. I feed him on one side for both feeds in a cycle so he gets the hind milk. When I feed him once a cycle he vomits a lot more. When I feed both sides he vomits an incredible amount.
Hope some of that is useful for you!

[rochellep]

Thanks for replying! I knew that I was prob. giving too much cereal, but he was going for it so I kept it going. I will prob do what u suggested and just give 1 tsp. I just wish I knew what is causing the NW. Tonight I am going to really pay attention when he wakes to see if I can figure it out. He just seems wired or cant go back to sleep no matter how much he tries. He doesn't wake because he is hungry (at least I don't think he is) He turned 5mos. today and is a big strong baby. He weighs 17 lbs. (7.71 kg?) With him eating solids now he shouldnt be waking from hunger more than 2x should he. The DF and then 1 more time? I wish I could just do what you did and go cold turkey, but at 5 mos. I am not sure? Anyway, he is waking from something else I think...or maybe not. I just wish I knew. I usually just feed him the DF and again at around 1 or 2 ish and then maybe around 5 ish then when he wakes at 5 I really try to settle before feeding. I don't usually feed him, and he just passes out after fighting me for an hour. Also I forgot to mention that when I do feed him, I usually try to pat him to burp him for 10+ min and he just will not burp!! Then I pd and 30 min later wakes for needing to burp. It happens every time. And that contributes to his broken sleep and being OT. In fact I know that is how some of the NW happened and it just gradually got worse. If I knew how much solids and feeds he was actually supposed to eat I would feel more comfortable in weaning from the NF soon.

[roimata9]

Could you try doing two DFs? One at the normal time and one before he usually wakes up, perhaps. That way he'd be asleep and wouldn't need the burping, and you could go cold turkey on the waking for a feed? Just a thought...
Good luck!

[rochellep]

Oh my gosh!!!Last night was HELL!!!!! It was so bad I called my DH and sobbed. He went to bed at 6:47pm. He woke at 9:22pm and I tried to help him settle as it was not time for his DF yet. He acted hungry, so I bf him, burped him for 10 min., pd and was back to sleep at 9:48. He woke again at 11:02, tried to help him settle in crib wouldn't, pu and he burped   back down at 11:08.
Woke back up at 11:14. Would not settle!!! From then on it was HELL! Tried for so long to help him settle in crib but he couldn't. Went to the rocking chair(which I really did not want to do) and still wouldn't settle. From what I could tell, the longer I tried to help him and the longer he was up, the more OT he got and unsettled he got. He would fall asleep and then a minute later would wake up. It wasn't like huge jolts but just he couldn't settle into deeper sleep. I gave him tylenol, gas drops, more reflux meds which he takes twice a day,nothing worked. He finally fell asleep at 1:30!!! From 11:14 to 1:30! Stayed asleep for maybe 40 min or so, then up again. I was so desperate that I did something that I was not completly sure of. I gave him a tiny piece of a melatonin tablet. I researched it and doesn't have any side effects because it is all natural, but there is no long term studies done. Just short time studies that actually show that melatonin has actually saved sick babies from dying. He fell asleep at 3:12 am woke 45 min or so again.  I bf him even tho I knew he wasn't hungry,which I normally don't do but I was so desperate for sleep, and he puked all over me. Put him in his crib to settle and fell asleep ( I think the melatonin was kicking in by then)and slept until 7am. During all this time I really tried hard to pay close attention to what he was doing. One thing I noticed was that everytime I got him form the crib, his nose was very stuffy and it was hard to breathe thru his nose, but when he was out of of his crib for a while he nose cleared up to normal. He also had some gas, a couple of times while he was settling in his crib, but resettled afterwards. What I don't understand is why he is not having any of these problems during the day. He sleeps 1.5-2 hr. naps now. He settles for his naps independently and at the beginning of bedtime at night. His reflux is pretty mild, he has always since he was a  newborn taken huge feeds with no problem. He only pukes quite a bit when he over eats at night sometimes. Last night I know he was not waking from hunger, because he lets me know when he is hungry. He just couldn't fall asleep and stay asleep. I really hope someone can give me some clues. I washed all his bedding in case something in his crib is giving him allergies. I cannot continue on like this.

He was so tired this morning...he barely made it to 1hr 50 min. How long should I let him sleep to catch up from last night, without robbing him of his night time sleep?

[mamamcgee]

Does he have any kind of comfort item in the crib? Blanket, stuffed animal?  Tracy says that they don't develop comfort items until 6 mos, but my LO was different. My 4.75 mo old DD started using a silky nightgown as a blanket because she is very tactile and that has helped her stay settled once she's settled.  My DD also has 2 NWs a night, and last night she cried for 1.5 hours before she settled (I knew it wasn't hunger that time). It is really hard. She brings her silk blanket to her face (we tuck one side into the side of the crib so she can't get too much at once) when she starts to calm down and I think its helping her self-soothe. So sorry you're going through this.  

[kristyn31]

Hi there....I couldn't help but laugh as I was reading your post as I have been through almost exactly the same thing!!!  It is so frustrating when the baby won't sleep.  My baby sleeps great during the day but has a lot of NW.  I still don't have success yet (my LO is 5 months old) but I just wanted to let you know that I share your frustration!  My baby has reflux as well....just because he does not vomit does not mean that he does not have mild-moderate reflux.  Our baby wakes up really congested too (I guess it is the feeds that are going up his nose) .  Not sure if you have tried the following...sorry I just skimmed through your posting but my brain is not functioning as well as it usually does from the lack of sleep I am getting ha ha.
Try putting a wedge in your crib to raise his head.  Our baby has just been put on Ranitidine and Domperidone which seems to be helping the reflux.  There is a homeopathic medicine for teething called Camillia which seems to work well...completely natural.  Interesting about the melatonin...haven't tried that.  I found rice cereal to be constipating too.  Right now I am feeding him prune baby food and trying to get him to take some water to get his bowels moving.  A BF baby should have at least 1 bowel movement a week.  Be careful about using suppositories too often as the baby's system can get used to only going with the suppository.  Anyways just wanted to offer my support and wish you luck!!!