Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread

[kim&savannah]

So, if you have candida issues, since you can't ever kill it all off, does that mean that you will forever have to stay away from anything that can feed it?  Or once its under control, can you then eat a little of the starchier things, as long as you don't eat so much that it gets out of control?  I'm wondering if that is what we have going on (although Henry doesn't seem to have excessive gas or anything, so not really sure), but honestly, the idea of staying on this diet for the rest of his life seems pretty terrible.  I know its fairly healthy, but its also a pretty difficult way to live sticking to it 100%.

[tigerlilly905]

So, if you have candida issues, since you can't ever kill it all off, does that mean that you will forever have to stay away from anything that can feed it?  Or once its under control, can you then eat a little of the starchier things, as long as you don't eat so much that it gets out of control?  I'm wondering if that is what we have going on (although Henry doesn't seem to have excessive gas or anything, so not really sure), but honestly, the idea of staying on this diet for the rest of his life seems pretty terrible.  I know its fairly healthy, but its also a pretty difficult way to live sticking to it 100%.

Well, NCM says that GAPS patients can never go back to the SAD or "normal" diet, for that reason. They will always have (to some degree) certain bad bacterias lurking in their systems since it's impossible to completely kill it off. Goal is to kill *most* of it off and repopulate with the good bacterias.  The good bacterias then keep the bad ones in check (while the patient continues to follow a proper gaps diet) Which is why, as Deb said, they can "flare up" if you eat improper foods. Key is to keep them under control.  In the very very later stages of this plan (think 2,3,4 years down the road) once the gut is completely healed, certain fermented/soaked/sprouted grains may be introduced. (I believe this part is outlined at the end of the "full gaps" diet link posted on the first page + in the book)  Ultimately the goal is to heal all food intolerance triggers as the gut lining heals, but again, that can take years. Our ND says to aim for minimum 2 years to try and heal a leaky gut... sometimes it takes more, sometimes less... but I think it helps to have realistic expectations with it all and know that it will take a long time for the damage to be reversed.  

Also, in the book, I'm not sure if you remember but NCM outlines certain cases where mental disorders seem to "pop up" in adolescents or adults who are going through a particularily stressful period in their lives ect.  That is explained because their diet usually gets very bad around that time as well (sugar/carbs ect) so they are feeding the smaller populations of the bad bacteria in them, then those bad bacterias take over, iykwim?  

I know NCM also says these patients almost always have to be on a probiotic/eat probiotic foods for life.  The dosage doesn't have to be as high as the therapeutic levels we are using for healing, but enough to keep the "bad" bacterias under control.

[tigerlilly905]

An afterthought, Kim - I can't remember, have you ever had H's stool tested for bacterial imbalances?  The one we just got done was a Microbiological Stool test. These are the 2 tests NCM suggests for babies: "The two tests I would recommend are Comprehensive Digestive Stool Analysis from the Great Smokies Lab and Organic Acids Test from the Great Plains Laboratory. The stool analysis will show the gut flora composition, while the organic acids test (it is a urine test) will show what toxins the child’s gut flora is producing. Both tests are non-invasive and can be ordered directly from the laboratories. It would be best for you to work with a practitioner who can interpret those tests for you; please view the Certified GAPS Practitioner section to find a qualified practitioner"

Also Kim, you mentioned rash around your mouth, here's what NCM says: "Mouth is a heavily populated area of human body – it has its own microbial flora. In GAPS people it is often abnormal, dominated by pathogens. These pathogens spread outside the mouth and can cause rashes around that area of the face. Here is what I recommend:

1.      Stop using all toothpaste and replace it with olive oil: dip your toothbrush into good quality cold-pressed olive oil and brush as usual; rinse with water. This is based on an Aurvedic procedure called ‘oil pull’ which has a good ability to detoxify the mouth and the rest of the body. Brush with olive oil twice a day.
 
2.      After every meal and at bedtime open a capsule of good quality probiotic on your tongue and let the powder dissolve there. This way you will populate your mouth, throat and upper digestive tract with beneficial bacteria."


Also, just reading through this updated FAQ, tonnes of info on Candida, Megan. Also about grapefruit seed extract (apparently you have to watch for die-off - which could be what Milo's going through, as well as certain preservatives in the supplement can be harmful... )

Deb, there's info here about GAPS and hashimotos too if you're interested (16th question down I believe)

Here's the FAQ list with the most updated questions from Dec 2011 at the top: http://gapsdiet.com/uploads/FAQs_PDF.pdf

[bug_blues70]

Going to read thru some links posted when I get the chance, thanks for posting them!

Rebecca - I know that he needs stomach acid to digest food. I'm kinda thinking that's why we're going back to just BM for a while - to see if it's just tummy troubles from digesting foods or if it's something more. Last night wasn't *great* but it wasn't as bad as normal either. He usually wakes every 2 hours or more and if I don't feed him it will escalate to screaming like I'm murdering him and he will keep going for HOURS until I feed him. Last night we managed to feed every 4 hours and he woke once more - an hour after his first feed. The difference was that he was crying instead of screaming and would lay down rather than thrash around. I actually managed to get him back to sleep within 45 minutes and no screaming and no nursing. That in itself is improvement. I guess I can't expect him to go seamlessly from waking every 2 hours to sttn, so i'm hopeful.

he doesn't have 50% yeast specifically, it was just that he had only 50% of the markers for good bacteria, so the rest is populated by a combination of unknown (and untested for) pathogens. As it is unrealistic to test for the thousands of different strains they could be, they only tested for a few specific pathogens and yeast was the only one that was somewhat high. And we are starting VERY small with the GSE. We are doing less than one drop, though it's hard to measure exactly. I think I gave him about 1/5 of a drop, but it has to be so diluted that I had to mix it with an ounce of water and then just let him drink what I thought was about 1/5 of it. It's very strong stuff.

Thanks Deb. I don't think it's yeast that's waking him up at night, and what you describe makes me even more sure. He almost never has gas (though I guess he could still have stomach pain).

Is anyone else on the diet having trouble with hunger? I don't know how b/c I'm eating lots of dense foods (obviously) but I still get so hungry at night and it's hard to find gaps-approved foods that are palatable (and easy!) in the middle of the night. It makes me wonder if Ellen has been grumpy lately b/c she's hungry too??

[deb]

I find I am MUCH less hungry if I make sure to have enough good fats. Very filling, and usually for hours. This was an issue for us on Body Ecology till I got over my fat phobia. Lol

[tigerlilly905]

I find I am MUCH less hungry if I make sure to have enough good fats. Very filling, and usually for hours. This was an issue for us on Body Ecology till I got over my fat phobia. Lol

Me too... You really have to embrace those healthy saturated fats. I actually love this diet, and don't really get hungry so long as I'm following it properly. 

If you're hungry at night it's probably b/c you're getting overtired and your body just craves the sugars for quick energy.  I know its probably super hard right now, but try and get as much rest as possible. When DH is on night shifts he craves the sugars too. I'm positive it's his body out of balance/craving the quick energy.  I always keep hard boiled eggs in the fridge for a quick snack. At night if I'm still hungry, eggs + bacon are a staple here They are quick, easy and loaded with the nutrients we need. Avocado is super important too.. I easily eat a whole avocado/day.  Have you tried making almond bread or coconut bread? That can also be a quick snack at night too.

I do think its a good idea to go back to just BM if you can for a while Megan. If you can't EBF and you find Milo is still hungry, maybe you can take a look at the Weston A Price Hypoallergenic FF I posted a few pages back for Jutka.  here's a video tutorial on how to make it and FAQ sheet. You should have most of the ingredients on hand - bone broth, FCLO, probiotics, liver ect.  I know they say it's ok to use whey, but I would still be wary of traces of dairy/lactose/casein.. so maybe you could keep the whey outt?As long as Milo is getting mostly BM and just a little bit of the homemade Hypoallergenic FF it might help his digestion? IDK for sure though

[bug_blues70]

well, I do get lots of fat... we eat eggs and avocado for breakfast, dark meat fatty chicken and vegetables for lunch, and varied dinner, last night it was roast with veggies. I eat nuts for snacks (or used to anyway ) and some fruit for snacks too. I haven't tried baking with substitute flours yet, but maybe that would be a good idea for nighttime snacks. That and I guess I could try higher fat intake later in the day, as writing it out helps me realize I'm getting way more fats earlier in the day than later.

I'll check out that FF, thanks! I don't know that I'd add the FCLO though, I gotta be honest. It's truly horrible, like I said.

Oh, and I meant to tell you. The digestive enzymes are a no-go for either one of us. They give me a bad stomach ache and I'm pretty sure they did the same for Milo.

[deb]

I've tried some regular OTC enzymes in the past and not been thrilled with them. Apparently papain and I don't get along.   I haven't yet tried HCl, but I'm due for a trip to the organic market soon - they sell organic ground dark meat turkey! - and their supplement section is AWESOME, so odds are they'll have some I can try.

I don't know what to do about iodine myself; with my Hashimoto's it's supposed to be contra-indicated, and my endocrinologist is useless about most of the supplement info out there. She didn't even know about avoiding iodine.... .... or gluten....

[tigerlilly905]

Megan, only time for a quick post, but before I ordered the Similase Jr for Arthur I did a comparison of the Similase Jr to the Klaire Labs digestive Enzymes (b/c I wasn't sure which one I wanted to order, even though the ND suggesdted Similase Jr) ANNYWAYS, the Klaire Labs ones are WAY stronger then the Similase Jr. Could be that they are too potent for your situation? Our ND did say that you need Children/Infant specific digestive enzymes for babies. I gave Arthur 1/2 tab this morning mixed in BM and he's been fine so far. I gave C a full cap. He's also fine so far.

[bjutka1]

Hi girls, I'm sorry I haven't posted in a while - Christmas just been very busy! Hope you all had a good time.

Just finished reading everything and going to comment on some ideas:

Craniosacral therapy - we have also been to see one and I thought she was amazing - I suppose it really depens on who you get. Though I have to say, I don't think it helped a lot with allergies but it did wonders to my 2 year old Peter who was a very difficult birth (vacuum)

Candida - after reading all this, I think Julia must have an issue with candida as she is VERY windy. (I'm wondering whether I myself havei issues with it, too and the rest of the family) Though sometimes I think would it just be the fibre from the vegetables? If she gets less fibre, she is also less windy (but would still pass wind, especially prior to pooing) We should get the results of the comprehensive digestive stool analysis back very soon so will hopefully find out. (Though, I am very worried that it won't be right as I took some stuff out of her diet a few days before sending it and apparently, it can change things... I also got the poo from her nappy and it would have had some contact with pee)

probiotics - we just got Klair Labs infant thier biotic today, going to start using it tomorrow. I suppose I will just add some to each of her bottles, just hard to know how much to start with. Are the other ones you ordered any better, Rebecca?

On the whole, Julia is doing so much better. She is pooing on her own most of the time and her poos have changed so much in amount, smell and consistency. Before the diet, I think food just went right through her without being digested or absorbed, it pretty much came out as it went in with a lot of wind as a companion. Now she poos less, it's not as smelly and looks like it's actually been digested. She is not as distressed when she poos, though she still looks uncomfortable.

Her skin keeps flaring though, even though we used some steroids on it.

She still only takes chicken stock, chicken, swede and butternut squash + HAF and she was 1 year old yesterday! It's going to be such a long haul, ladies, won't it? It's good to have some companions!

[deb]

If there's gut damage I'm not sure if fiber can irritate the gut? And some veg just produce gas; I can't eat crucifers/brassicas AT ALL unless they're cooked or fermented, and even then not always, because I get horrific gas from those. (I miss broccoli and cauliflower! )

[bug_blues70]

Happy birthday Julia! It IS going to be a long haul, I agree!! And funny how you describe her poos is exactly like what changed with Milo when we started gaps!! Though he had a really runny one today - I guess b/c he only had milk yesterday!

[tigerlilly905]

probiotics - we just got Klair Labs infant thier biotic today, going to start using it tomorrow. I suppose I will just add some to each of her bottles, just hard to know how much to start with. Are the other ones you ordered any better, Rebecca?

We still are using the Klaire Labs infant probiotic for the boys. I did order the Vital Immune to compliment it though, but that hasn't arrived yet. Will post about it when it does.

RE: Candida, I think we hear a lot about it b/c it's one of the pathogenic bacterias that has a name and is usually seen in high amounts. As Megan said, there's litterally billions (if not trillions) of bacterias in the gut (good & bad) so it's impossible to put a name on all of them.  Bad bacteria is bad bacteria... whether its candida or not, and ALL of the bad bacterias can cause these imbalances, digestive upsets, ect ect ect. I think the key is to realize our little ones are out of whack. In a healthy gut the good bacterias are able to control the bad ones from spreading and causing too much damage. Unfortunately our bubs got more of the bad stuff then the good... so we have to balance all of that out, which will take a long time.

Yes, I agree, it's going to be a long haul. I was thinking about that today actually. I'm just glad we know about this now and are able to take positive steps. I'm forever thankful I came across that Mercola article back in the summer that made me find this program.  I've been talking to a few Mamas on the GAPS FB page, many of whom are dealing with Autistic children, developmental delays, failure to thrive ect ect all steming from a leaky gut. They all have said to me at one point or another that they wished they knew about all of this when their children were babies.  So I think in a certain way we're lucky to have all of this information so we can work on fixing this now before the toxicity takes an even stronger hold.  When I was worried about Arthur not eating, I then thought about a Mama with a 4 yr/old non-verbal autistic child that refuses to eat anything but white bread and bananas and she told me she wished she had known about these dietary changes early on and knew to EBF longer... makes you appreciate where we're at, kwim? 

Anyways, I think we're all on the right track

[deb]

Technically, candida isn't a bacteria. It's a fungus. That's why abx kill off bacteria and leave the candid to flourish.

Yes, that's right..... there's a fungus among us.

[tigerlilly905]

Technically, candida isn't a bacteria. It's a fungus. That's why abx kill off bacteria and leave the candid to flourish.

Yes, that's right..... there's a fungus among us.

Thanks for clearifying