Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread

[tigerlilly905]

I meant naturally occuring food chemicals, like Amines, Glutamates ect.. that's moreso the theory behind the RPAH Failsafe elim diet. kwim?

[deb]

Ah, gotcha.

[bjutka1]

Thanks, Rebecca. What about chicken? I am only using that as the meat at the mo and have only been able to find free range, not organic. That's not good enough, right? And how do I know what they feed them with? If the chicken is corn fed it says so on the label but if it doesn't say anything, what does that mean?

Just got an email from my biomed dr. He wants me to stop giving her the probiotics for a week and do a urine microbial metabolism test for her. He did ask to get this done but the kit only arrived 2 days before Christmas and they were closed over the holidays so I couldn't do it then. I'm really annoyed about this now - another week to be wasted! He also says die offs do occur but not usually as severe as what I mention and he doesn't know whether enemas would help or not. I'm not sure he is the right guy for us anymore, tbh.

[tigerlilly905]

You don't *have* to use organic, but I've read that its best if you can.  Many people do perform the diet without all organic with success... it probably depends on whereabouts in the world you are and their farming practices. If you can find free range + antibiotic free chicken I think that's probably a great option.  Sometimes farms do use organic practices but simply can't afford to be "certified"... so it's worth asking around. They might not say organic on the label, but if the farmer is doing all organic farming practices it's basically the same thing, kwim? For us, I know the feed because we talk to the farmer. We try and buy directly from the farm if we can. The chickens we eat do have organic soy mixed into their feed and it hasn't caused an issue with us... but I know some individuals are particularly sensitive to that stuff.  Do you buy from a butcher then? I'm sure you could ask them.  If you are buying from a grocery store, I'm not quite sure. I guess you could ask where they get their meat from and contact their supplier if you have questions.  Such a pain though, right?

urine microbial metabolism test for her

Is this the same as the Organic Acid Test?  (OAT)  We didn't have to stop probiotics for the OAT test, I just had to make sure I didn't eat any apples, pears, grapes or cranberries (or their juices) 24 hrs before. All of these tests can be different, eh?  I know the stool test we just did says no enzymes ect.. but it didn't say anything about no probiotics prior to the test, so I just kept dosing as usual.

Are there any ND's in your area with an expertise in this sort of thing? We found ours through a list Eloise and Megan provided... I just checked to get the link for you but apparently they no longer publish a list of practioners Weird... They had a whole list of international Dr's who deal with this sort of thing... that's where I found ours.

So this morning Arthur was lunging at my hard boiled eggs, so I gave him the tinest bit of egg yolk. He happily ate it and didn't throw up so that was a plus. But then I noticed the weirdest thing this afternoon... he got a small rash all up his legs and a bit on his tummy - the same looking rash that's around his mouth.  Can eggs cause die off?? See, I'm wondering because this afternoon his poops were perfect - no mucous + bright yellow. We haven't had those since he regressed after I first tried to start solids. Hummmm.. I'm going to post on the FB page to see what others have to say.  I don't feel like it's an intolerance thing, but who knows... I know eggs are super high on the healing list, so maybe?  

[tigerlilly905]

Jutka, I did a separate google search and found 2 practitioners in Ireland that are certified by "DAN" (defeat autism now) - using similar nutritional protocols that we are using.  The ND we are using is also certified by DAN. Could be worth contacting these people... I have no clue if they are close to you or not though... 

Noreen Cronin, BSc, Ph.D., HDipNutritional Med
Woodhaven, Fortwilliam, Douglas
Cork
Ireland
ph: 00353(0)214367794
fax: 353 324367794

Majella M. Perry, MB, Bch Bao
Meadowcroft Surgery
Millview Court
Tinahely County WTCKLOW
Ireland
ph: 00 353 402 3869
fax: 00 353 402 28782

Here's the link I used to find them: http://www.autismresourceconnection.com/medicaldandoctorsinternational.html

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

Okay. I'm sorry and I feel like an idiot for even posting this 

I have been reading the GAPS book. I just simply do not seem to retain the information. I  still completely lost and it feels like there is way too much to figure out.

Do you know of any simplified step by step way to do this? Like has anyone just written out the basics that you can find online or something? I just cannot figure information out written in this type of context 

I really want this to work but am feeling very overwhelmed and discouraged  

[Erin M]

(((hugs))) Jenn.

[bjutka1]

Jenn, I sometimes feel just like you! It's so overwhelming, there is so much that we would need to change! I just said to my husband that we would need to move out to the country and start an organic farm or something but even then, pollution is everywhere. I think if you are looking for basics, go to the new baby diet and follow that. It's step by steps and explains what to do for every week.

Rebecca, thank you for the research. I have also found these 2 guys, they are very far from me so I emailed them and one of them advised me to go to the guy I'm seeing at the mo. DH and I decided to go with his advise for now and wait and see what he makes of the tests.

I'm actually a bit relieved to be stopping the probiotics after another terrible night! I really don't know if it's normal to have such a severe die off!!! Since we started, she has got considerably worse, terrible stomach pains, diarrhoea and constipation, wind, sleep disturbances and flare up of ezcema. She also needs to sleep to get better and I don't think it's good for her to be this upset. But then I'm really torn as I know how important these probitics are for her to heal.
I nearly feel like going back to biogaia as we didn't get these reactions with that one and it was helping a bit, though I know that they are very weak in comparison.

Rebecca, I would be careful with the eggs. I know they are high in the healing list but are also very allergenic. I mean the first thing you are told to exclude when breastfeeding is dairy and eggs. I could be wrong, of course, just I know that I would be worried about the eggs.

[kim&savannah]

Jenn {{{HUGS}}}}--I feel the same way often.  I may be missing lots, but this site feels like a nice overview:  http://www.gaps.me/preview/?page_id=34

Gotta run.

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

Thanks girls. I mean more for me then for Emily. She isn't on solids yet so I'm trying toget into full GAPS because I'm BFing her. I jut don't know what suppliers I'm supposed to take or when to take probiotics (with every meal?) when to give her probiotics, if we are both suppose to be doing detox baths and how that all works. I guess what I want is a check list so that I know that I haven't screwed something up. There is simply too much info in the book for me to soak up in my sleep deprived state (along with the fact I fall asleep every time I start reading ). I paid for a GAPS intro meal planner and in that it sort of laid everything out step by step but of course I can't do the intro diet because I am BFing. Duh!


Rebecca- did you ever find a iron supplement you felt comfy giving Arthur?

*sigh* I need to do something, Emily is getting worse again

[bug_blues70]

Hi Jenn! I felt (and still feel!!) exactly the same way. It's a HUGE lifestyle change and you don't have to do it overnight. I found it easiest to go in steps, so pick one thing in the book that you feel you can manage, say eliminating grains, and then do that for a few days. I started by printing out a list of all the foods that I could and couldn't eat (just use google to find the list) and just working off of that until I was used to it. It took me several days to whittle down to just the list - I found it too hard to just go cold turkey, especially since there were things I didn't have on hand and couldn't easily find in the grocery store (cold pressed coconut oil for example). Also, you don't have to do everything the book says right from the start, you can start by making gradual improvements. For example, I buy raw nuts (walnuts and pecans are best raw, IMO) but you can wait on sprouting and roasting them yourself until you are more used to everything else. Then you can start thinking about what supplements you want - probiotics and such. Take some time to order these when you print out the food list so that you can receive them in a week or so and will have them when you are ready to start them. Then I started trying to make and keep up with the broth as that is a huge part of the diet. Then once I was more used to all that, I started adding in some of the other things such as yogurt and/or saurkraut.

Also, meal planning is pretty helpful too. We eat eggs and avocado for breakfast almost every morning. Every day for lunch I roast chicken pieces (and get broth from it too!) and cook some kind of vegetable. Dinner time is the only time I really have to be creative, but that's usually just some form of chicken or beef with vegetables too. Snacks are the hard part for me, but I usually eat nuts or fruit.


There's still times when I'm not the best at keeping up with the broth and supplements and diet, but even what I do manage is making a difference for Milo. I ate normally for two days on New Years as I was at my sister's house and couldn't really cook for us, and Milo's poops went back to mucousy and he got some eczema on his face. So I know that the diet is helping a lot and that is motivation to just do the best that I can, even if I'm not perfect, kwim?

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

Thanks Megan!  that is super helpful! I think I am scared that if I'm missing something, I'm screwing something up and I worry that it would be harmful But in reality, our meals are still missing things now and we are all still alive

[bug_blues70]

Exactly. You just make small changes and keep improving and making them. Another example is if you want to eat navy beans b/c they are on the list, but you can't manage to soak and cook your own right away, use canned beans until you can make the change to preparing dry beans, kwim?

[tigerlilly905]

((hugs)) Jenn!! I agree with what everyone else is saying.. it can be a really hard adjustment and the changes can't happen all overnight.  Baby steps for sure.  Try not to get too overwhelmed with the specifics. The gaps.me website that Kim posted is really good. I also love the Health, Home, Happiness website. This might be helpful, "Healthy Changes 101": http://www.healthhomehappy.com/2011/04/making-healthy-changes-101.html   She also does a "Coles Notes" version of the GAPS book if you're finding the book itself to be too overwhelming: http://www.healthhomehappy.com/2010/11/the-gut-brain-connection-autism-add-allergies-and-other-diseases.html

 As Megan said, maybe if you stay focused on the "allowed" list and obviously stay away from the "avoid", kwim?  Here's the full GAPS plan: http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/the-full-gaps-diet.pdf  (which we're on since we're BFing)  

Here's the allowed and avoid list: http://www.gutandpsychologysyndrome.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/GAPS-Diet-Foods.pdf   Again, I would stay clear of common allergen triggers at first. It's a bit of trial and error. We still don't do any dairy (fermented or otherwise) and no peanuts ( I know for certain those bother Arthur when I eat them)  This list is just one page and as Megan suggested you can put it on your fridge.

It will get easier. Honestly, once you get into a groove with it, it really does click.

I also agree with Megan about automating meals. Breakfast/lunch are almost always the same here. Dinner is the only real variation.  Breakfast is eggs, avocado (occationally bacon) & freshly made veg/fruit juice, lunch is always chicken soup (or a variation, sometimes lentil soup made with homemade soup stock, or navy bean soup (just be sure to soak your beans/legumes over night in apple cider vinegar to remove phytic acid)  And whatever you do make, try and make bigger batches to freeze ect.  That makes life easier. Also, if you don't already use it, a crock pot can be a livesafer... you can throw an entire meal in the crockpot in the morning (root veggies, meat ect...) and it's ready for you by supper time.  You can even slow cook bone broth throughout the day in the crock pot or do your beans in there as well.  I do my bean/legume soaking before I go to bed. Once you get in the habbit of doing it the same time everyday you really don't think anything of it.

((hugs)) it will get better. You're doing amazing!! What dose of probiotics is Emily on now?

Jutka, yes, I decided to not give Arthur any more eggs. He just *really* wants to eat sometimes and I feel so bad keeping food from him all the time.  He had some bone broth this morning mixed w/ BM in a cup which he liked.

[kim&savannah]

Any reason why I couldn't have an all natural hotdog that is made from grassfed beef and has no added nitrates or sugar or anything else not allowed?  I'm guessing that is fine, right?  DH was asking me to get some because while he thinks the saurkrat I made is good, he's not really one to eat it plain, but loves it on hotdogs, so I found some and was thinking that would make for a fast lunch once in awhile when I need it.