Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread

[bug_blues70]

Lots of posts while I was posting. How much skj are you giving, Megan?

I gave 1tsp once and never since. I just made a new batch (which is why I wasn't giving any) so when it's ready I'm going to start with 1tsp a day to begin. Since I haven't been giving it at all, that's why I said I decided to focus on that rather than the yogurt just yet.

[bug_blues70]

oh, also meant to ask. The yogurt I made is almost milk consistency... that can't be right??? I've got it straining thru cheesecloth right now, but I still think I must have done something wrong. Anyone have experience making yogurt?

[tigerlilly905]

oh, also meant to ask. The yogurt I made is almost milk consistency... that can't be right??? I've got it straining thru cheesecloth right now, but I still think I must have done something wrong. Anyone have experience making yogurt?

Homemade yogurt is super runny.. it's a very different consistency. I don't think anything is wrong. I know Deb has experimented w/ adding gelatin to make it thicker. I'm sure she can help. We just use the runny stuff. DH mixes it in protein shakes or mixes pureed fruit w/ it.

Ok, I'm pretty convinced all of this probiotic stuff + reactions is related to die off now. Remember how I just upped my probiotics yesterday?  Well this morning I did it again, as did DH.  We both have been paying close attention to our reactions to any foods we're eating today.  I ate 2 big bowls of chicken soup w/ sauerkraut already.  My lips are very itchy and some little bumps I have always had on my arms are itchy too (they have never been itchy) My fingers also feel slightly "pins and needles". DH said his nose was really itchy today after eating his soup.  I guess our probiotic dose wasn't high enough to experience the same reactions the boys were having. I have never had this sort of reaction from eating soup before - ever. I have been trying to go really slow to avoid high detox into my BM, so wasn't taking high dose probiotics.  Feeling the way I feel right now completely makes me realize how the boys have probably been feeling. Guess we'll continue on. It must be doing something

[tigerlilly905]

Also Megan, were you sure to keep the yogurt somewhat warm when you were fermenting? That aids the fermentation process. Also, how long did you ferment? I find a full 24 hrs is best.

[tigerlilly905]

Since we're on gut health here, take a read at this: http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/01/15/dr-don-huber-interview-part-2.aspx  I swear GMOs play a part in all of this too!

This quote from the article really hit home: "Dr. Huber also recently met with a doctor in Germany who specializes in working with autistic children. Interestingly, there appear to be many correlations between the rats fed genetically modified feed and autistic children.
 

"[When] you look at the stomachs of the GMO-fed [animals], they have all of the severe allergy responses, the inflammation and the reddening… When they looked at the intestine, they said that the intestinal lining is deteriorating… The smell of the intestinal contents is very rank. The biology has been drastically changed.

This [German] doctor said, "That's exactly what we're seeing with our children with autism.
 
We need more research, but certainly, the indicators are there. The research up until very recently hasn't been done, and those who wanted to do it have been prohibited from publishing, or from doing that research. We see those that have dared to come out and raised some concerns have been very severely impacted professionally, as well as in their own personal lives, in that persecution that they've had to endure"

[deb]

I find it's harder to keep the yogurt warm in winter while it's culturing. I've started using a heating pad under the jars and covering them with towels to keep it between 105 and 120F (but not over 120 F). Otherwise it does come out runny.

Are you heating the milk all the way to 180F? And letting it cool below 120F before adding the culture?

Here's how I do it: http://crunchyprogressiveparenting.blogspot.com/2011/09/homemade-yogurt-its-awesome-and-easy.html

[tigerlilly905]

Quote (selected)         
                     
                                    I find it's harder to keep the yogurt warm in winter while it's culturing. I've started using a heating pad under the jars and covering them with towels to keep it between 105 and 120F (but not over 120 F). Otherwise it does come out runny.

Good point I usually preheat the oven to about 300 then turn it off. The oven stays warm"ish" and the yogurt seems to ferment well in there.

[Mom to M&M]

If you think you and Arthur and DS1 are having die-off I'd stick with it. I was having a LOT Of die-off at first when I went off gluten and yeast and upped s boulardi and caprylic acid. But my holistic practitioner had said that if it is die-off you need to go through it and to continue on. Maybe just back off the digestive enzymes and/or foods for now until the die-off settles down?

FPIES is also another thing to consider - it is Food Protein-Induced Enterocolitis Syndrome. It is a gastrointestinal and immune response to particular food proteins. A good friend of mine's second child had this - he is now 6 and doing GREAT. Apparently "most" children outgrow it starting around 3 or so but for a LONG time he was BFd only, then when she wasn't making enough milk she did BF and HAF (Neocate) and slowly learned what foods he could tolerate and go from there.

My DS has been on the Vital Immune for about a week now, maybe a bit over. I suspect some die-off symptoms as well - his mood and energy and eating has been GREAT but he's having MANY small poops a day instead of two medium ones and his sleep is more disturbed. I give him one Vital Immune capsule AM (open it into his homemade fruit drink - I blend lots of fruit and sometimes veggies with a smidge of apple juice and lots of water) and one Culturelle capsule (adult vegan one, not the one for kids) PM.

[tigerlilly905]

just a quick moment to post. I just got a reply email from a gaps practitioner in Ontario. I feel very hopeful now. Will share more info when I have time later tonight. She also has international gaps clients she works with via phone/email. This practitioner is about 2.5hrs away from us so we will be working with her via email and phone as well.

[bjutka1]

Great, Rebecca! Hope you get some answers. i also emailed a GAPS practitioner in England and awaiting reply. I rang Tesco today and they said that both their free range and organic chickens are completely GM free so just got one in the slow cooker and will see how Julia does on it tomorrow. This was the chicken we used when first started GAPS and she was doing so well.

Quick question: what sort of response would you expect from skj? I gave 2ml to Julia today and her poo was a bit runnier and she was also more windy. Is this a good sign or a sign to back off? Just wondering...

[bug_blues70]

Thanks about the yogurt. I wrapped it in a towel and left it by the heater vent but that probably wasn't warm enough. Also, I have a recipe that says 12 hrs so I only did that, though I did go up to 185 and down to 110. I think I'll probably try keeping it warmer and fermenting longer. It turned out ok after I strained it, but there ended up being more whey/milk than yogurt

Crazy about the die-off Rebecca! Glad you found a good practitioner!

Jutka - not sure about the skj, but I'd probably keep at the 2ml for another couple days and see how it goes.

[Erin M]

Megan, my friend always did her yogurt in a cooler as it kept the heat in quite well.

[bug_blues70]

oh good idea, thanks!

[tigerlilly905]

Megan, I've been reading along on the gaps yahoo group and someone posted today about heating raw milk for yogurt, here was the response: "You don't have to heat it. You get a better consistancy from the yogurt if you
heat it and kill off the competing bacteria. Of course it is no longer raw. If you don't heat it, the yogurt is thinner and more "gloppy". Now I don't mind gloppy and I prefer it raw. I don't make it much though. Kefir is easier."  

So the GAPS practitioner that emailed me back today said Arthur is for sure in die off. She's currently working with 4 other babies all with similar symptoms to what we are experiencing so I'm looking forward to corresponding with her in conjunction to the other ND we are seeing. I think whatever bad-guys we've got going on in our family really don't like the Acidophilus, so that's probably why we're getting such a pronounced die off from the Vital Immune. Ds1's behaviour was dramatically improved today and I only put a pinch of the vital immune in his BM as opposed to a whole capsule.  

Jutka, I posted about our bone broth situation on the gaps yahoo group. This is one response I got from a Mama that I find particularily helpful:  "If he is reacting to bone broth then stick with meat broths for now, which are gentler. And perhaps only simmer for an hour or so to minimize amines. Using Super fresh meat (ie the day of or the day after kill) will also minimize amines and may have less of a reaction. My son used to get very red splotches on his face after drinking the meat broth particularly when it contacted his skin. It looked nasty, but i persisted since the week we started the broths his mysterious hives, which he had for 5 months daily, disappeared. he no longer gets this red face. We've been on the broths since August last year but gaps intro/full for 3 months now"

And another response from a Mama about introducing probiotics (might be helpful in your situation as well Jutka)
"I forgot to mention (not sure if someone else mentioned) to go slow with the probiotics. We started on a tiny tiny amount- the tip of a knife. Maybe like 10 specs? And if you go SKJ, a drop a day for 5 days to see if there's a reaction. I thought my son couldn't tolerate them but that's because we gave him too much too soon. We're now up to a 1/5 capsule per day and generally able to increase much quicker now. Hoping to get to a 1/2 capsule in the next week. Also don't forget the detox baths if you're not doing already, Epsom salts, ACV or bicarb. "

Jutka - I would keep up with the 2ml for another few days. If she seems to be ok, up it a little, if not, back off a touch but do not back off completely. She really needs those good probiotics.

[tigerlilly905]

Oh, I forgot to mention this gaps practitioner I found is a WAPF local chapter leader!! How exciting!! I can't wait to pick her brain!!