Author Topic: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread  (Read 94145 times)

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Offline kim&savannah

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #60 on: December 21, 2011, 19:42:36 pm »
We do broth mixed in with his purees.  But Henry also love it and has since the first time he tried it.  Not sure if you can mix it with stuff to hide the flavor?

And I agree that its frustrating when they don't like exactly what they should.  Henry vomited 5 times after I finally managed to trick him into eating some avocado, so I've had to give up.  He's so low on the weight charts that I was really hoping he'd eat a lot of avo and catch up.  both my other kids loved it and ate a ton in the beginning of solids.
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tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #61 on: December 21, 2011, 20:04:29 pm »
What is it with him flat out refusing all the things that are supposed to be the best for him on this diet: broth and egg yolk (and avocado too)

I remember reading it's because of the Candida (and other nasty guys in their guts). The bad bacterias make them crave or prefer the starchy/sugary foods and want to reject the nourishing foods. Which is why in extreme cases of autism and other neurological disorders many children have a very limited diet of what they will eat - all due to the bad bacteria controling their brain connections to food, kwim? Wild, eh? 

I have more to write but no time now. ND was amazing today though. Will write more in a bit, but have to get dinner on.

Offline bjutka1

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #62 on: December 21, 2011, 20:50:31 pm »
Now I'm confused. When you say bone broth, do you just mean meat stock? We slow cook a full chicken and use the liquid to cook her vegetables in and I also warm some up and give it to her in a sippy cup. This seems to be the best way for her to accept it.

Yes, I use filtered water to make her bottles and also to make her meat stock.

Interesting discussion about what the poo should look like. I can pretty much tell what she had from her poo, from the colour and consistency. Julia's are mushy in the morning (but that's probably all the bottles she took overnight) and a bit harder and better formed in the evening - that's all the solids she takes during the day.

Curious what your ND came up with, Rebecca. Keep us posted.
Jutka - lucky mother to 2 gorgeous babies
Peter 25 Oct 2009 and Julia 28 Dec 2010
Married to a loving and proud husband on 25 Aug 2007

Offline bug_blues70

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #63 on: December 21, 2011, 21:49:14 pm »
The bad bacterias make them crave or prefer the starchy/sugary foods and want to reject the nourishing foods.

Yeah, but he'll eat everything else I give him - including liver! I don't give any sugary foods (with the exception of pear every few days, like I said)




Megan

tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #64 on: December 22, 2011, 02:43:48 am »
Ok, so I'll try not to write a novel, but I know I will :P ::)

So the ND today has an expertise in this sort of thing. It was like a breath of fresh air talking to him!! (Thanks to Eloise and Megan for giving me the links to finding him!!! :-*) Like NCM, his specialty is Autistic children and other neurological disorders. (of course linked to the condition in the gut and food intolerances as we've all learned about...)

He could tell just by touching Arthur's tummy where some internal imbalances were.  He said the right side of Arthur's digestive tract is a bit under developed from what he could tell. It could possibly be from how he was positioned in the womb, but it's hard to say. He said he could feel a lower blockage near the base of his tummy too, which is possibly where he's having the most trouble with his poops.

To start us off we are doing an OAT and a stool test. I have the kits here. The OAT test needs to be sent out between mon-wed and a fresh urine sample is best, so it looks like we will have to wait until Monday or Tuesday to send it out.  We are also doing a stool test to test the bacteria levels.  Both tests have to be shipped to the States so we probably won't have results for 4-5 weeks :-\

In the meantime we're to continue with the high dose probiotics that we're already using AND also use these probiotics too: http://www.amazon.com/Global-Health-Trax-Fivelac-60-Count/dp/B000OOLYO8  Like NCM, our ND said that the probiotics are crutial in healing, and these kiddos need SUPER high doses (even more then I thought!)  So I am to continue dosing Arthur 1/4 tsp of the Klaire Labs 2x/day and do 1/2 pack of the FiveLac 2x/day as well. What's special about the FiveLac are the probiotic strains themselves. He said that these are the ones he finds he has the highest success rate with and they also have a higher chance of implanting their colonies in the gut (instead of just passig through, iyswim?)

Here's the probiotic strains in the fivelac:

•Bacillus coagulans: A probiotic organism that may help control occasional digestion and stomach problems.
•Bacillus subtilis:A probiotic organism that may help crowd out "bad" flora in the intestines.
•Enterococcus faecalis: Enterococci constitute a major genus within the lactic acid bacteria group that exists naturally in the human digestive tract. This effective probiotic bacteria is the result of formulation under strict laboratory conditions.
•Lactobacillus acidophilus: These friendly bacteria inhabit the intestinal tract. The breakdown of nutrients by L. acidophilus produces lactic acid, hydrogen peroxide, and other by-products to enhance optimal intestinal flora.
•Bifidobacterium longum: B. longum may help keep the digestive system running smoothly

My only beef with this supplement is the FOS :-\  I know FOS is a no-no on GAPS, and I'm not a huge fan of the stuff in general, but this ND swears by this probiotic and does say that the FOS can help the strains survive while passing through the digestive tract to give them more of a chance to "fight" the bad bacteria. So I guess we'll give it a go.

We also have to start digestive enzymes. These are the ones he recommends. http://www.amazon.com/Integrative-Therapeutics-Similase-Junior-V-Caps/dp/B0031R8MWW

I have to open and mix one capsule with either water or BM and give it to Arthur 3x/day.  He says usually enzymes don't have to be taken long term, it just depends on the case.  He says typically it takes about 3 months on enzymes for digestion to be in a more stable place.

We also discussed an IgG test for both Arthur & Charles to see if we can pinpoint specific food sensitivity triggers, but we probably won't do that until next visit (good thing too - cause this was all starting to get pretty expensive ::))

He's also a very experienced NAET practitioner http://www.naet.com/  He mentioned perhaps doing some NAET treatments in the future for both boys if needed, but again, we can cross that bridge later as it comes.

He feels both boys cases are probably very similar, of course Arthur having the most severe case and Charles much more minor.  I'm going to dose Charles the same with the probiotics/enzymes to see where it gets us with him.

He believes very strongly in postponing vaccines until after the age of 2 yrs for all children, but for these kiddos in particular. Since their immune system is already compromised and can't process/handle the toxins associated with vaccines its one of the best ways to avoid neurotoxicity and stress on their already very sensitive immune system.  Makes sense to me, especially since the immune system isn't fully developed until after 2 yrs.  I guess he sees very bad cases of Autism as well, and in some cases the vaccinations are what tipped the scale to causing the worst damage. We had already made the decision to postpone immunization for Arthur indefinitely until his tummy healed, but I was glad he was more then supportive of the decision.

He also said that Arthur could perhaps have an "energy blockage" that's causing him to vomit. The way he explained it is that Arthur could have an internal trigger that says "solids are bad for you right now, we can only digest liquids" and it's making him reflux the solids.  Again, makes sense considering he just can't keep any solids down. This is what the NAET website says about blockages: "The brain provides warnings to the body whenever blockages occur within the energy pathways. These warnings include illness, pain, inflammation, fever, heart attacks, strokes, abnormal growths, tumors, and various physical, physiological and psychological discomforts. If the symptoms are minor, blockages are minor. If the symptoms are major, blockages are major. Minor blockages can be unblocked easily, whereas major blockages take a long time to unblock. "


He said some kids digestive systems start to get lazy when they are already in this state, so the extra probiotics and digestive enzymes will help to revv up his system again so hopefully after a month or so on those supplements we'll be able to try solids again as per the GAPS protocol.  I mean, Arthur was able to keep down the liquid bone broth fine, and also kept down carrot juice I gave him - but both resulted in really nasty mucuous poops. So maybe those made it past his vomit trigger, but his body still couldn't break them down properly, kwim?

ANYWAYS, lots to work with, which is great. I'm sure I forgot something, but that's all that's popping in my head for now. What do you ladies think? He seemed pretty on the ball to me.

Jutka, bone broth and meat stock are a little different. Bone broth is when you cover the bones with filtered water and boil, boil, boil ... usually a min of 3 hrs.  Boiling just the bones helps to extract all of their healing properties, gelatenous tissues ect. You could mix meat stock and bone broth together for sure. I know both meat stock and bone broth are very high on the gaps list.

Megan, wish I knew what else to suggest. Hummmm... tricky little Milo :P At least he's loving liver!

ETA - I knew I forgot something.. the other thing I'm not 100% on with the Fivelac is that it does contain trace amounts of casein/lactose.  I know it would be fermented of course since it's in probiotic form, but I'm not sure if it will bug the boys :-\  He said that he almost never gets a food sensitivity reaction from these, so they should be fine... I think i will have to introduce them very slowly to avoid adverse reaction.  If it's a strong probiotic like he says it is, I anticipate it causing a lot of die off anyways, so I may have to work up to giving the boys the 1/2 pack 2x/day as he suggested. Either way, they are on order so we'll see how they work out.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 08:02:45 am by tigerlilly905 »

tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #65 on: December 22, 2011, 19:49:46 pm »
Well, my mommy research tells me Fivelac is out. I've had to cancel the order. After digging through the ingredients I've found they use Canola. An email to the company later and I find out it's GMO Canola, which I'm not putting in my kids. That, paired with the fact it contains traces of dairy, I'm just not comfortable using it.  Argh, I'm a little annoyed. I called our ND today and he apologized... I guess not everyone is as concerned about GMOs, so even he wasn't aware that this product contained GM Canola. Either way... I suppose I will just up the Klaire Labs even more until we find a more suitable probiotic to pair with it.
« Last Edit: December 22, 2011, 19:52:22 pm by tigerlilly905 »

tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #66 on: December 23, 2011, 12:17:06 pm »
Megan, which Klaire Labs probiotic did you give Milo that gave him a really bad reaction?  I'm looking through their product line right ow to see if I can find a stronger probiotic to pair with the infant probiotic we are using.  I'm thinking the Pro5 25 billion CFU would be good since it's supposed to enhance gut colonization, but I'm not totally sure. 

Also, does anyone remember reading that acidophilus can bother some GAPS patients?  I can't recall exactly.

Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #67 on: December 23, 2011, 12:56:46 pm »
We've been REALLY happy with using both Udo's Choice Infant Probiotic once daily in the am and Culturelle (adult version opened up) once daily afternoon. Both are totally dairy free and we've really noticed a difference.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Erin M

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #68 on: December 23, 2011, 13:03:29 pm »
I used the Udo's when Katie was small and having a horrible time with some strong antibiotics.  They worked quite well.

So here's a funny thought - we've been talking a lot about bone broth and it's healing properties - my dear uncle developed a condition almost two years ago that was a precursor to a severe form of leukemia - after chemo they did a bone marrow transplant and he spent months and months wanting to eat nothing but chicken soup.  I think his body knew what it needed!

Offline bug_blues70

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #69 on: December 23, 2011, 13:57:02 pm »
Rebecca - it was the ther-biotic complete 25+ billion. I hope you find something that works!




Megan

tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #70 on: December 23, 2011, 15:47:39 pm »
So not this one Megan? http://www.klaire.com/prod/proddetail.asp?id=V086-06  I was leaning towards this one.

But, I just got an email from our ND. I asked him to check out the Klaire labs brand probiotics to see if he could find a compatible one to go with the infant strains we're using. He suggested this one, the "Vital Immune"
http://www.klaire.com/prod/proddetail.asp?id=V171-10

As the product description says, it's supposed to help with IgA cells  and allergy responses. Who knew this was going to get so complicated :P

I've actually been really happy with the improvements from the Klaire Labs Infant Ther-biotic, but as our ND suggested, he thinks we still need something more potent to ad to it.  I guess different strains all have different healing properties?

Awesome about the bone broth Erin! :D

Offline Erin M

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #71 on: December 23, 2011, 19:50:03 pm »
Re: the different healing properties, yes!  Was reading something just yesterday on the different strains and what different things they target.

Offline Mom to M&M

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #72 on: December 23, 2011, 20:44:43 pm »
That Klaire one looks really great - would love to order it but need a referral code! Will have to wait and speak with my holistic doc after the holidays.
Karen: Proud Mama to Marisa (8-11-05) and Matthew (6-5-09) and happily married to my best friend and love of my life since 10-13-01

Offline Erin M

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #73 on: December 23, 2011, 21:18:25 pm »
Here is not what I was reading, but it does outline some of the major strains of probiotics
http://www.livestrong.com/article/27960-list-probiotic-bacteria/
I'll keep looking for what I was actually looking at as it had many of the probiotic strains described.  I hadn't realized there were quite so many!

tigerlilly905

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Re: Gut and Psychology Syndrome (GAPS) Support thread
« Reply #74 on: December 23, 2011, 23:03:15 pm »
That Klaire one looks really great - would love to order it but need a referral code! Will have to wait and speak with my holistic doc after the holidays.

I thought so too, but just go on Amazon.com... they have all of their products you can order and ship to your home. No referral code ;) :D 

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=Klaire+labs&x=0&y=0

We've been using the Infant Ther-biotic for the boys and DH and I take the Ther-biotic Complete w/ 100 bil CFUs.  I just ordered the Vital immune to complement the boys infant probiotic. ND said to dose one broken capsule/day in conjuction with the 2x 1/4 tsp infant probiotic/day for the boys.

Ohh, looking forward to reading that article Erin, I have it bookmarked for later tonight!