4 1/2 MO Long NW or EW???

[amayzie]

For info, Sleepy signs at this age can be confusing.  It can mean well rested (think how much you yawn after a good nights sleep and a long lazy lie in - if you can remember what that's like  ) and it can mean bored or needing a change of scene.  Keep your A times up and if there's a yawn change the activity.  If he starts to fuss do something chilled out to get him up to his A.  If you get a horribly short nap reduce the next A a little but not too much.

THis is really good info to consider too (as was the rest of the post;) ) but it is really the case with my guy..

[trinity33]

Oh well Charlie had his own ideas about mummy's new plan!!

He woke up at 4.30 not crying but quiet and making a few Whimpering noises and put himself back to sleep at 5am.  Then woke at 6 and the party started. So I got him up at 6.30 and tried to give him a breakfast bottle  at 7, although he wasn't that interested until 7.30. So I'll see what time he starts getting tired for the first nap and I'll try and resist the urge to put him down sooner just because I think he's been up ages.

Boy I hope this works, a 5.30 daily wake up isn't fun, but 4.30 sucks!!!

[creations]

The 4.30am WU sounds UT to me.  You're really lucky he puts himself back to sleep for a while though.
I do think with the A times stretched a bit more the nights will get better.  Wait and see what happens once he's settling into good day time As. If the Nights don't improve we can look at it again.

[trinity33]

Yes bless him he's pretty good at self soothing at night (okay so that's jinxed it) ! Getting him up earlier has done good things for his naps.

Awake 6
A 2.35 hours
Sleep 8.35-10.35 had to extend at 45
A 2.50 hours
Sleep 13.25- 3.10 had to extend at 45
A 2 hours
Sleep 5.10-5.45 ap

He's woken happy from the catnap tonight rather than cranky and ot so I will try pushing bt back a bit.

Do you think I should push the A times more or stick where we are for a couple of days?

Happy new year!

[creations]

Hi, sorry I didn't get to you earlier.
Great naps!  Was it easy or hard to extend?
Looks like you can push the As a little longer.  Try 5 mins, you don't want to take it too high for his age, although if he's closer to 6 months then you can up to 2hr 30 for all the As but slowly does it and keep observing.

Happy New Year to you too x

[trinity33]

Hi Katy - no worries on the time to reply. As your lo is a little older I'm hoping you got to celebrate ny.

Well we were making such good progress and then I took him to friends for the afternoon and I think I broke him 

Extending the naps at 45 mins the day before yesterday was pretty easy and i didn't have to Httj.  We pushed bt back by 10 mins. Then after saying how good he is at self soothing he woke at 2.30 with real 'I need you mummy' type crying. He was quite easy to comfort, though and then slept until 6 am hurrah!  So after he'd chatted for a while we got up to start the day at 6.30. He went to sleep on his own for the first nap at 8.55 for 1.45 with no help! bless his cottons. Then I screwed it up.....

We went out to see friends and he fell asleep in the car after only 2 hours A time 12.35 Then had a 45 min nap at 3.40 and a cat nap in the car at 5.00 bed at 7 and he then took 2 hours to go to sleep!!!! He kept trying and would head thrash and eye rub then be wakeful for another 20 then back into trying to sleep etc. He rewoke after 40 mins then slept through to 4.30- when he wanted to start the day  I left him chatting and then he went back to sleep at 5.45 for 60 mins. So we started the day at 6.45.

Sooooooooooooooooo I definitely think you are really right about pushing his A times. This really seemed to be working at both extending his naps and giving a slightly later wake up. I guess I need to just clear the diary for a few days to try and really get him used to this new routine with more consistency. Silly mummy for wanting to go out and play 

I really didn't know how to play today after he'd only really had 7.5 hours night sleep last night so I we did....

4.30 wake up
5.45-6.45 I think to him this one is really his first nap not night sleep
A time 6.45-9.05
Sleep 9.05 - 9.45 I'd cut the A time a bit due to the bad night but he only did 40 mins then I couldn't extend so think it was too short
A time 9.45 - 12.55 I didn't put him down until I saw tired signs but the meant a 3.10 A time
Sleep 12.55 - still going at 2.45 after extending at 40 mns and httj for 20 mins!!!


So the big A times definitely seem to be the key. He's not quite 5 months so these do seem like really long for his age, but they did seem to be working- until the dr ride nap. After the last few days experimenting  I definitely think that when he goes back to sleep after an ew he's seeing it as a nap and that's what's throwing things out. But what to do if the ew is at 4.30? If I get him up then, when would you do the first nap? And how to make easy work for the rest of the day?  Also on a selfish note how long do you think I need to clear the diary for? It would be nice to have just a teensy weeny bit of a life too 

Thanks so much for all your advice, it has really, really been helping us. I would never have thought of upping the A time. 

[creations]

I wouldn't start the day at 4.30am if you can help it at all.  I had a good amount of time getting up at 5am and 5.30am but I had no option.  If you can resettle do, if you can feed and resettle do.  Better to have a NW with a feed than a day starting at 4.30pm

Getting out and about - tbh I'd be surprised if you ever got to a stage of being in such a great routine that LO didn't nap in the car or pram at the wrong time.  I think the best way to work it (in my experience) is to plan going out or coming home in time for the nap to be ok in the car/pram OR to just shrug your shoulders and know that the rest of the day will be off track and start again the next day.
I used to either head out or head back home (or both) at nap due times and then sit in the car waiting for LO to finish sleeping.  I tried to avoid any morning appointments as this was when DS got a great 2hr nap and from this I knew we could cope with the rest of the day whatever happened. This isn't ideal but it worked for us.
I also believe getting out is great for LOs and mums, you both need a change in environment and socialisation etc and you will both benefit.
So, I can't answer the question about how long you should keep your diary free for.  You could stay home the next month and then go out and LO fall asleep after 1hr A just because it is SO comforting in the car!  It does help if you can have a day at home to get back on track and fight off the OT after a 'messed up' day out so if possible try to plan your outings every other day - not always possible though.

Let us know how it goes x

[amayzie]

I do the same- i stay home in the morning.. (even that's a killer sometimes!) and know that Hamish will have had his big sleep then and then go out in the arvo. I usually try to stay home for  couple of days when i'm reallytrying to fix the routine or if we've had a shocker (where the amount of day sleep has been terrible!). BUt you also need to consider your sanity! I would say if you have heaps of social engagements coming up at the moment to do with the holidays you may decide that rolling with it is best- but if things are pretty much back to norm (there are ALWAYS social engagements) then perhaps 2-3 days at home might be in order. I usually don't do more than 3 though as i start to go a bit crazy! Also when hamish was your guy's age he started getting REALLY grumpy at home and keeping him up  for the required amount of time became really hard as he was bored!

If i'm heading out i generally stay home in the morning, then when he wakes from his sleep feed then straight into the car and GO!! Then i know he's unlikely to fall asleep. Then if he falls asleep on the way home i usually keep driving for the 40 mins till he wakes up. If he;s had a day with short naps in the car then i'll stay home the next day if i can... is hard though!!

And the car seat is VERY cosy!! Especially as it's summer here now- so is very warm when he goes in!

[trinity33]

Hiya, that's good advice. He woke at 2.45 and put himself back to sleep but then woke again at 4.15 - gutted, so even though he wasn't crying for food I gave him a bottle and he drank 230ml. He was still happy awake for another 35 mins but at least when hee went back to sleep at 5.20 he slept until 7.10 - Yeay! Just wish I could have gone back to sleep :-(
I thought this would give us a really good base for today and I pit him down for a nap at 9.20 he wasn't eye rubbing or yawning but his face had gone red and he was grizzly. had to shush pat To sleep. only took 5 mins. but he woke at 35 mins, grizzly so I tried to extend. he went back tio sleep but woke up again, still tired. I've got him to go  back again twice and am httj. What do you think ot or ut? I'm still struggling to know with this fella.

[trinity33]

Oops think I posted at the same time as you Katy.  I think Charlie and hamish are from the same pod. He was getting really bored yesterday and kept shouting at me. Was fine for 10 mins if I played with him or changed the activity though. I'm gonna stay home today and tomorrow. Then we have swimming on Thursday. At 1.30 so that always mucks up naps. He does love it though.

[amayzie]

i was just thinking today i should start swimming after the school holidays but ws wondering how on earth to fit it around naps!!

[creations]

FWIW I put DS down for a slightly earlier nap on swim day, and timed waking him up so it was at the end of a sleep cycle, this helped him to wake happy rather than grumpy.  Then milk, out to swim, more milk immediately after swim and straight to sleep in the car (or if he lasted until we got home then straight back to bed).  They get super extra hungry swimming so disregard your regular E times and just feed and feed before and after.  Naps too, they are SUPER tired after a swim so expect either a wonderful nap or screaming OT!  After about 5 weeks DS started to adapt to the swim class and didn't go for a nap straight after wards but at his normal time instead.  We always had to have a home day after swim day as it messed us up so much.  But lots and lots of fun so really worth it.

[amayzie]

Thanks for the tips!!

[trinity33]

I'll try the early nap this week for swimming and see what happens. Definitely reccomend swimming though. Charlie just beams at me as he floats towards me, melts my heart. Like creations I try to be at home next day though to try and get things back on track again.

Keeping my fingers crossed with Charlie tonight. I did manage to extend his naps today but he was very fitful when he did go back to sleep and kept jolting awake. Oh well we'll see. Does jolting tend to indicate ot or ut for naps? Or am I just clutching at straws on whether i'm getting his A time right. We had 2.20 then fitful 1.45 hour nap, then a 2.25 A then another fitful 1.45 nap.1.40. a then 35 min catnap

Thanks girls. :-)

[amayzie]

I'm not sure on the jolting! Sorry!! Those naps do look better though!