A bit stuck . . . ?

[rugbykaf]

On phone so apologise in advance for mistakes . . .

Will try to cut a long story short - Had problems with 30min naps in the past but on reaching 6mo they started to lengthen. THEN THE TEETH ARRIVED! 7 teeth between them in 3 weeks, bless em!

As u would expect, naps and night sleep went to pot. Things have settled down in the last few days but Im a bit lost as to what A times to aim for now. Can u guys take a look at our nap times and see what u think. Today went like this . . .

7.10am wake
9.30-10.05 nap (not sure who woke who, and they were also quite difficult to get down showing OT signs)
12.40-1.35 nap (strange to get a UT length nap after this A time and a short morning nap!)
4.20-4.50 catnap
6.45pm bed

As u can see, A times are all over the place! They usually STTN but still seem tired throughout the whole morning A time. Is it normal for LO's 1st A time to be much shorter than the rest? I need to get these naps back on track.

Thanks x

[creations]

At approaching 8 months old you'd be looking at a guidance of 3hrs+ A time
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0

I would up the first A of the day a little (10mins) for 3 days, then repeat.
I'd normally go for increasing just the first A of the day and try to get that nap longer so the next A can increase after a good (or almost good) nap but in this case I think you might be able to up the second A at the same time.
It seems to me that the first nap is UT short, then because they've had a nap when they weren't fully ready they've been able to last the next A time on the short nap, also because the next A time is quite short for their age too.  Hope this makes sense!

It's probably time to move towards dropping the CN too.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64837.0

As for first As being shorter, yes I've read that many do prefer a shorter first A and you'll see in the example in the above link has a first A of 2.5 - 3hrs with the second A at 3hrs (bare in mind the CN can be dropped from 6 months when LOs are on a shorter A anyway).  My DS however only got a good first nap with a v long first A, so you never can tell.  Having a good routine and observing them as you are doing is likely to result in working out their preference though.

Appearing tired can, confusingly, be a sign of a good sleep.  Think about how dopey you can feel after a long lazy lie in (if you can remember what those are!).
So, whilst it's ok to keep the first A shorter for their preference, I'd still go up a bit as 2hr 20 is pretty short for the age and I think that first nap is UT as a result.

what do you think?

[rugbykaf]

Thanks for your help . . .

I thought people would say to increase their A time but I tried that last week (2hr45) and we ended up with a fair bit of crying before they would settle to sleep (bearing in mind that a month ago they would go to sleep with no crying whatsoever.

I put that down to overtiredness and possibly too much of a jump in A time, but things had been so messed up because of the teething I had to start somewhere.

However . . . I'm not so sure now . . .

This is what happened today -

Wasn't very easy as one/or both were awake on and off from 6am, I didn't get them up until 7.15am.  So . . .

Wake somewhere between 6 and 7am!

E very grouchy at 8.15am but gave him some calpol and he cheered up (I wonder if I've been misreading discomfort from teeth as discomfort from tiredness?)

Took them upstairs at 9.20am, E asleep at 9.35, J at 9.40 (settled fairly well).

Both slept until 11am!!!!

Went to a friends for lunch, took them upstairs again at 1.45, asleep by 2pm (settled well again).

But . . . J woke at 2.30pm with a dirty nappy and showed no signs of resettling.  E woke at 2.50pm.

Do you think they were UT for the 2nd nap?  They've both been pretty similar in their sleep needs up to now.  When J woke at 30mins I thought "oh pushed it too far, 3hrs was too long".  But he woke pretty happy and they didn't seem OT before I put them down.  Then with E doing 50mins???

Whats your thoughts?  Should I try to extend it a little more tomorrow?  I guess what makes it tricky is that I'm not sure exactly how long they were awake before that 1st good nap 

[creations]

I'm short on time tonight so forgive me for being brief.

Crying before sleep could be UT as easily (maybe even easier) than OT.  The worst several weeks for me was the 40 min naps, short As and crying that made me think he'd developed cot phobia.  He didn't have cot phobia he was just trying to say 'please don't put me to bed yet, I really really don't want to go to sleep, I'm not ready' - I asked him politely to stop showing me sleepy signs if he wasn't sleepy, pushed the A and we crawled out of the 40 min hole.  Several months on I know the difference between 'sleepy signs' and REAL sleepy signs.  There is a difference and only I know it.

It's hard when you don't know the WU time.  Take your best guess, work out what A you think they had and do the SAME again tomorrow.  This for two reasons, first it allows them to adjust slowly to the increased A, second it helps you work out what that first A really is/was or you won't know where to push it from/to.  You shouldn't go up too fast anyway, 10 mins or so each day if they can handle it, or ten mins every 3 days if their body clocks are shouting it's nap time when it isn't.

Confusing teething for sleepy - easily done really, teething can cause them to rub their head, ears, eyes etc which can look like sleepy signs but it's their way of trying to get at wherever they think the pain is.  They don't necessarily know exactly where the pain is so just jab at anything.

Second nap does look UT based on the 50 mins, you can't judge by the dirty nappy.

I think the thing here is you know you need to up the A, don't go too fast on it, just know that for a little while longer the naps might still be shorter than ideal whilst you move them up.  Certainly jumping up too fast can make OT as they are expecting a nap much earlier.

Again, sorry to be brief.
Let us know how you get on x

[rugbykaf]

Thanks again.

Got another good 1st nap today but then had to go out for last minute xmas shopping so can't comment on the rest of the day. Although we definately need to get this 2nd nap longer so we can get rid of the catnap. They slept in the car on the way home today and were still rolling and giggling around on our bed at 7pm 

Will stick with trying to extend 2nd A time slowly over the next few days. Thank you so much for your advice.

Kath

[creations]

Great to hear you got another good first nap.  I always think the rest of the day can be a bit more flexible once one good nap is under the belt.  I mean , we do need to go out sometime, we can't really stop them falling to sleep in the car or pram when it isn't 'supposed' to be nap time, etc.  If the rest of the day gets REALLY messed up it's a good idea to try to stay home the following day so they can catch up, but that's not always possible either.
Seems like things are headed in the right direction though.
Must say, I'm a little envious of your long 12hr+ nights.  My DS has always done more like 10.5 to 11hrs night and although it sounds a long time it's a pretty early start to the day.

You're doing great, keep going and keep us posted x