Things are getting weird...

[ZacsMumme]

SO Zac has been on 1 nap for ages, he is pretty good at going down for his nap and will nap anywhere between 4hrs-5hrs A. If he sleeps in till 8 I PD at 12 if he wakes at 7 I PD at 11.30 but usually play the day by ear. He knows his WD which now includes a bottle and 10mins or so of quiet play, a book then nappy change and into his room, sleepsack and bed.

He then will nap forever some days if I will let him so I used to wake at 2.30 and we did 7-7.30 BT. Now its like he is never ready for BT   we have had antics for up to an hour which sometimes seem OT and sometimes UT. I will be strict with his nap A (ie same A time prior to nap) and this makes no difference. I know we are in a develpmental leap - I can literally see changes every day, and he is coming out of a bug. We are getting some STTN but some NW - usually just 1 and seems to be sore tum related (this bug of which he is now on antibiotics)

Yesterday DH and I got tough, hoping to get him back on track for 7.30-7.30
We got him up at 7.45 (he woke himself)
Nap at 12-2 (we woke)
BT 7.30 - thought he should be nice and tired by then but he mucked around in his bed till 7.50-8pm...seriously a 6 hr A for a 14.5mth old?  

This morning he woke at 8am (we would have woken him earlier but we slept in too and its xmas) he had 1 NW at 1.30 for 15mins. I fed him, straight back into cot awake. (these antibiotics seem to be giving him tummy pains)

Prior to all this rubbish, teeth etc he was STTN for 2 weeks with the following rough EASY
WU 7.30
Nap 11.45-12 up to 2.30pm
BT 7.15 talking to himself for 15mins then asleep.

Okay so I have written a novel....sorry....if you are still with me here are my actual questions  

First, I really dont understand how in a month he can need another hr of A after his nap and possibly a nap shorter than 2hrs? - Is this possible or more likely to be discomfort, developmental?

Second...If I was to push out his first A to closer to 5 hours, would this affect his second A to BT or not? - I could even out his day, but he seems to like a short first A.

And lastly is this common for this age or developmental leaps...to not want bed? It is very hot here too so I suspect this isnt helping  

Merry Xmas lovely ladies...I am now going to forget about this sleep business for the rest of the arvo!  

[*Kara*]

I don't have a tonne of time but....

Alexandra is doing 5 hrs in the AM (and has for almost a month)... takes a 2 - 2hr15 min nap and then does 5-5hrs15 min to BT

[EloysH]

Merry Christmas xxx 

 For support whilst on antiobitics give him 1000mg Vit C per day during and after antibiotics...

Yes they do start to do silly things with naps at this age... we got our first nap refusals dyue to teething at this age... just ride it out I reckon!

1.5 -2 hour napping was our norm and often 5-6 hours before bed, I would suggestto ride it out if is recovering or fighting a bug... if he is still doing it when you are sure he is better or not teething then address it then.   

Ride it out and go with it if you can for a few days... you are doing a great job and enjoy Christmas now try not to fret too much... they tend to go crazy and Christastime anyway du to all the excitement....

we had 5;10am waking, nap refulsal, then 30 min car anp at 4:30 pm and 8:30 asleep what a crappy sleep day but what can you do??? - he's teething and its Christmas .... oh well xx

[clairebear79]

Hiya Sara

We are having craziness here too.  Same kind of thing, chatting loads at BT, although we are having 2hr nap & averaging 10.5hr nights at 16 months old  & I too have been wondering about if he's UT & surely he can't need more A before BT.  But tbh I think he might!

Have you got a WW approaching?  Seem to think theres one at 64 & 75 weeks, we are about 4wks away from ours.

I know other mums who are/have done 6hrs A to BT, and I think if the first A time is on the shorter side (4-4.5ish hrs) then its perfectly feasible.  I would def ride it out a bit longer before changing anything, but if he still isn't settling then I think you know your choices:
1) give him a longer A to BT (possibly means accepting a slightly shorter night)
2) continue to cap the nap at 2hrs max & see if that starts to help
3) Increase his A before nap to 5hrs every day.

IIWM I would probably 2) first, followed by 3) if the former doesn't help.  I personally wouldn't cap his nap any shorter yet, he is still quite young (although I am actually considering it with O if pushing his nap out doesn't help).  BTW we are averaging 5.5-6hrs A in the AM & around 5hrs A to BT with a 2hr nap (though this week its been much shorter 1h 10-30).

There seems to be mixed opinion as to whether increasing the A before nap means you need a shorter A to BT - I would really like to know the answer to this myself!!!  We are currently pushing out O's nap to combat EW & are struggling to find the right length A time to BT.

Hope someone can shed more light!!


xx

[ZacsMumme]

Claire, yes we are in a WW...apparently the week 64 one starts at 61 weeks and Z always gets his leaps at the start of the window

Thanks for your thoughts, thing is our nights are still long..11.5hrs last night. I had capped his nap at 2 hrs yesterday. If I could increase the first A and it helps I would totally do that

The NW do seem discomfort, I think we have another tooth cutting. Eloise I think you are right re antics related to teeth, though Zac is great with his nap, still ap forever if we let him. BT has just gone to pot.

You are so relaxed Eloise can you send me some chilled out vibes please merry Xmas ladies.

Oh and thanks for your routine Kara, I would rather Zac be more balanced, he seems to like a short first A now

[*Kara*]

I am gonna join you in the land of weird sleep Sara!  Day 3 of unsettled baby from 545-630am... But, I totally figured out what is causing our problems - WIND!  Not the bodily version - the weather type   It has been so incredibly windy/gusty here that it woke me up in the middle of the night... I noticed when I went to DD's room this morning that it is much louder in her room - UGH.

[ZacsMumme]

Gross Kara, I wonder if ours are weather related too, Zacs room is hitting 30 degrees by BT and that is with me airing it out before, a fan in there etc. We don't have air conditioning (got heating but not cooline ) but have never really thought we would need it. This summer has been so so hot!

Do you use white noise? It is our lifesaver, we have lots of stupid noises weather and people related all night long it sometimes seems grrrrr

[ZacsMumme]

What I am not getting is that he will do a 4 hr A (or later) and go down so easy for his nap, but we have BT antics no matter what A we do in the PM? Maybe he isn't UT/OT? - argggg I don't know. Just hope it ends soon!!!!!

If I knew that extending his first A would affect his next A - i.e. balance out his day, I would just do that...but i'm scared it wont and then our day will be mega long!!! In the past set(ish) BT have always worked well.

[*Kara*]

Just a loud ticking clock - anything else keeps her awake

We had the same thing with the heat this summer...

I would give it a try with the longer first A time

[ZacsMumme]

So tonight was a battle, he seemed tired all arvo and BT routine went fine until we went to PD then screaming. Took an hour to settle with multiple calm downs with the lamp on and a book to reset him as he was hysterical.

He's still hanging out in the cot, this is after 6.5 hrs A now and he is clearly OT but wired and pointing at everything between crying.

Could this be hideous SA? Surely it's not just developmental?

DH are thinking maybe we need to be drastic to re-shift his day back to closer to 7.30-7.30 by waking tomorrow AM even if he has a rough night. An push the first A out 15 mins. Ie
WU 7.30
Nap 11.45 (aim for 12 soon) till 2pm so longer nap.
BT 7.30

Here is what blows our mind, he is happy to nap with a short A and goes into his cot happy and wide awake, settles fast. But now at night he is just a mes no matter what A we do. I just don't believe he can need a 6 hr A to BT really...

[clairebear79]

  I still think if he's only doing 4ish hrs in the AM then its perfectly possible he needs 6 before BT. Dont forget he is probably so used to napping at 11.30ish that this is why he is easy going down.  I think I would definitely try the longer A in the AM sara, it has to be worth a shot. It should hopefully mean he needs less in the PM, at least thats my theory anyway.  I can't see how extending the AM means he still needs 6hrs A to BT or like you say, his day will be mega long.  That said, advice on my thread was that a 10.5hr night+2hr nap is perfectly reasonable for a 16month old & probably the best I can expect, so who knows.  I am still hanging in there with hope that getting the right combo of A times will sort out our nights!

[ZacsMumme]

Thanks doll, I think we will try this tomorrow. I am just scared he will be up all night. Plan is to WU early at 7.30 if his night is okay. Extend A to 4.5 hrs to start with, so midday. Still wake at 2pm or a touch later if he takes a while to settle then try again for usual BT of 7.30 aiming for him to be asleep by 8.00pm.

Sound reasonable?

[clairebear79]

Yea I think so.  He's done 4.5hrs in the AM before, so shouldnt be too much of a push for him.  Good luck.xx

[ZacsMumme]

Okay so today was....
WU 8am
A 4hrs25 mins
Nap 12.25(I couldn't keep him up longer) -2.40 (opps meant to wake at 2.30 )
A 5hrs 40 mins
BT 8.20 (20 mins of fighting BT and crying from 8pm)

So improvement. But not perfect.

Tomorrow aiming for first A of 4hrs40 mins and a slightly longer A till try to PD for BT (5.5)

Sound okay? Is a 11.5hr night okay with a 2hr nap?

[clairebear79]

Is a 11.5hr night okay with a 2hr nap?

Absolutely hun.  We are getting 10.5hr nights with 2hr nap so to me that sounds FABULOUS!!!!!!!