frequent wakings and when to stop shh pat?

[sarahmay]

Hi

My LO is 3 1/2 months old now. we were doing really well up until christmas, sleeping from about 8pm - 8am with only one waking for a NF (I'm breast feeding). However, since all the disruption over chirstmas and getting a cold, his sleeping is all over the place. I also think he might be teething as he's constantly dribbling and gnawing on his hands. We usually get him off to sleep ok for BT but for the past couple of weeks he has started waking up about every 3 hours (about 10.30, 1.30, 4.30, 7). On some nights i've tried not to feed every time as i'm worried this might start up a new 'routine' that he gets used to but what if he actually is hungry? Any suggestions on how to move back to our 1 nf a night?
Also, we use shh pat successfully to get him off to sleep both for naps in the day and at night. however, i'm not sure how long we're meant to be shh patting for - at the moment almost always we carry on until he is asleep. is this not then going to become a prop though? Should we just do it for a couple of minutes and then leave him, otherwise how will he learn independent sleep?
Any thoughts greatly appreciated!
thanks
Sarah

[*Kara*]

Hi Sarah,

Could be a growth spurt that is waking him in the night... but if he does go back to sleep, you can take comfort in knowing he is not hungry.  A hungry baby may go back to sleep but will wake repeatedly every 15-30 mins until you feed them.

Re: shush-patting... he is still quite young but sounds like an overall fantastic sleeper!  Since he usually wakes for a single feed, he has proven that he can self-settle - babies partially wake many many times during the night (much more than adults) so the fact that he doesn't get you up every hour or two for more patting proves he is learning independent sleep well.  Good job mama!  You can try to reduce the amount of patting that you do... either slow the speed and then stop or just try stopping sooner than you normally would and see how he reacts....

I am more a fan of the slowing down then stopping method - less of a "shock" to them

[sarahmay]

thanks for your reply Kara. Last night was the worst yet - the little chap woke every single 2 hours between 7.30 pm and 8.30 am! I only feed him when he woke at about 11.45 and again at 4am, as was sure he couldn't be hungry 2 hours after a feed (he goes easily 4 hours during the day). Really not sure what we can do to stop this pattern. Do you think it could be becuase he's now in his own room?

[*Kara*]

Not very likely hun... it sounds like a possible growth spurt...

What does your EASY look like right now?

[sarahmay]

do you think that's what it might be?
Last night was as bad as the one before - he went off to sleep at 7.15 no problem at all, but then woke about 10.30, midnight (when i fed him), 2.30, 3.30, 4.30 (fed again), 6.45, 7.45 and i then fed him at 8am.
We've been on a rough 4 hour EASY, where basically he eats at 8am, is awake for about 2 hours then sleeps anywhere between 45 mins and 2 hours. eats again at 12. Afternoon schedule varies massively depending on how long the morning nap was as he only lasts 2 hours max between sleeps. This does mean by the end of the afternoon it's usually all gone a bit wrong and he ends up being tired and hungry at the same time! Bed is about 7 after a bath.

Re the shh patting, yesterday the naps were great - went upstairs for our wind down and he went off to sleep without any patting at all which was amazing. he did a little cry to start with but from reading on here i think this is just his mantra cry.

today i'm trying feeding every 3.5 hours as maybe we moved to 4 hours too soon and he's not getting enough food in the day? He never feeds for long regardless of how hungry i think he is - 5 or 10 mins at the most, but it's always been like this and he's putting on weight ok so must just be efficient.

Thanks for your help with this!

[*Kara*]

I think you have done the right thing moving back to a 3.5 hr feed routine... especially since he is BF - BF babies do tend to eat more frequently...

The 5-10 mins is fine - he is just becoming efficient

[sarahmay]

Thanks Kara - nice to have some reassurance!
Well, another night and 5 wake-ups (10.30 , 2.30, 3.45, 4.30, 5.30, 7.45) - a slight improvement on the 6 the night before! i fed at 10.30, 2.3- and 5.30. Also, one positive was that at the 3.45 wake up when i really knew that hunger couldn't be the problem my husband went in to shh pat for a few minutes to settle him a bit then left him - after 5 minutes of grizzling (not proper crying, just the odd wah!), LO was back asleep on his own. I think the hourly wake up between 2 and 5am are turning into habit so really need to work out how to get rid of these. Any tips? I do think that teething is part of the problem as during the day the poor little chap is constantly driblling and chewing on his fist, so not much we can do about that really. I shall carry on trying to offer more feeds during the day and see how that goes.

[*Kara*]

Sounds like it could be teething for sure... if you think some are becoming habit - send DH in to resettle those ones.  He can always get you for a feed if LO will not settle back to sleep.  It can be hard for you to break a feeding in the middle of the night with LO when your boob is in his face

[malibu_nikkus]

My 5 mth old is doing the same.  It's horrible isn't it.  The only problem is, I have been feeding when he wakes at night (sometimes hourly), and he isn't hungry so really isn't taking a full feed.  He seems to be really unsettled all day and all night, wanting a feed every hour or so (a feed is the only thing that settles him).  He is waking out of all his naps and night sleep after about one hour histerical.  Is that what your lo is doing? I'm going to try some panadol for lo tonight to rule out pain...

[sarahmay]

Hi there,
Sorry to hear you're going through it too - although from what I've been reading i don't think we're in the minority! I was feeding my LO every time he woke up to start with but then realised he couldn't be hungry every hour when during the day he can go 4 hours without eating, so my husband and i started taking it in turns to settle him back down. For the first few nights it took quite a while to get him back off to sleep, with lots of shhh patting etc and it was really hard work. However, last night i feel we had quite a break through - although the little chap still woke up about 6 times, I only actually got out of bed and went in to him once when i fed him at 2am. The first cry started about 10pm - i decided I'd just wait a minute before going in to comfort him and then the second he heard the 'click' of the light in our room he stopped crying! So, rather than go in to him I held back and left him to see what happened. 5 mins later i peeped in and he was soundly back off to sleep! He woke again an hour or so later, but this time didn't even really start crying - i just heard a couple of grizzles and then he got himself back off to sleep. I did feed him once as i wanted to be sure he wasn't waking up due to hunger. he still woke about an hour after the feed but again, got himself back off to sleep without me fussing over him. So, although we're still feeling a bit tired today I really am feeling more positive as at least he seems to be learning independent sleep and maybe tonight he won't even wake up as much......
hope you get on better tonight with your LO. We tried Calpol a couple of nights too as like you were worried he was in pain but for us it made no difference what so ever.

[*Kara*]

My 5 mth old is doing the same.  It's horrible isn't it.  The only problem is, I have been feeding when he wakes at night (sometimes hourly), and he isn't hungry so really isn't taking a full feed.  He seems to be really unsettled all day and all night, wanting a feed every hour or so (a feed is the only thing that settles him).  He is waking out of all his naps and night sleep after about one hour histerical.  Is that what your lo is doing? I'm going to try some panadol for lo tonight to rule out pain...

Feeding baby that frequently can actually cause baby to keep waking up... too much in the tummy makes baby very unsettled...  If a feed is the only thing that settles him, I can tell you it is not the actual feed - it's a suck to sleep prop and this is easily broken at this age - please feel free to post on the props board and get some specific help

[sarahmay]

A small success story - after battling for the past few nights with all the wakings last night my little fella only woke up once for a feed at about 2am. Phew! Definitely worth sticking to your guns and trying not to feed unless you really think they're hungry as hopefully now he's back into his old routine.  Thanks for help and support.

[*Kara*]

YAY!

[malibu_nikkus]

Thank goodness.  What do you think solved the problem?

[sarahmay]

i've no idea really. Maybe b/c we stopped feeding at every wake up, so the little chap realised he wouldn't get fed each time. .... or maybe just b/c he gradually settled back into his old routine after all the chaos of christmas etc. Who knows, but i'm very happy about it! Last night just one wake up at 3am after peacefully getting himself off to sleep at about 7.45 and then woke up at 8.30!!  now i just need to stop myself waking up all the time expecting to hear him crying for me!