Author Topic: Help with plan to intro milk (Read 8605 times)

green100 · « **on:** January 13, 2012, 18:30:06 pm »

Our DD had excessive spitting up, until about 5 months...which was the time when I eliminated milk from my diet. I've had a glass of milk on a couple of occasions and the spitting up returned. She doesn't seem to react when I eat yogurt or cheese. Though she did spit up randomly the other day (she is now 9.5 months) and I can't figure out what it was from. As we are approaching my return to work I'm looking to wean her for day time feeds (thinking to BM in sippy cup) then I was hoping to wean her to cow's milk at 1 year. I'm worried that she might not tolerate it, so I wanted to try and see if there is a way before then to determine her sensitivity to milk products because if there is one then we'll wean to a soy based formula instead (hopefully she tolerates that). I did try and discuss this with our MD but she didn't seem too concerned (she's not the one that would be dealing with the effects though!).

My thought was to try cheese or yogurt and see what happens. If successful maybe make an oatmeal using milk.

We are currently dealing with NW issues and then need to eliminate the DF. I'm thinking trying this out during that process isn't a good idea, but we only have so much time!

Anyone else have this issue? Thoughts, suggestions?

deckchariot · « **Reply #1 on:** January 13, 2012, 20:17:05 pm »

has your dr diagnosed her with a milk protein intolerance? My daughter is MSPI (so both milk and soy) and is bf. I've recently begun introducing goat cheese, yogurt and baked goods with milk in them into my diet, and she's been fine. the protein in goat's milk (and sheep's milk) is smaller than in cow's milk, thus easier to digest. Also, the process of fermenting (like in yogurt) or aging (in some cheeses) and cooking (ie baking) also helps to break down the protein. Which is probably why she's not having trouble when you have cheese and yogurt. She could still have the problem with cow's milk. I drink almond or coconut milk and we've just begun giving dd2 coconut milk (it's high in fat and calcium fortified) as at a year I will not be weaning her to cow's milk, and she can't tolerate soy either, and the amino acid formula is crazy expensive.

If it's a protein issue, she may have trouble with soy as well. I know some moms do oat milk too. I would try some yogurt for her directly, and see how she does, then cheese (aged cheese is better). I'd try cow's milk in your diet before I tried it in her diet. If she spits up when you have it, I would not give it to her (even in oatmeal).

green100 · « **Reply #2 on:** January 13, 2012, 21:46:51 pm »

I informed the dr(not a ped) but as I said she didn't really seem concerned and certainly didn't suggest any Dx or any testing to confirm a Dx. When I said I was planning on starting with yogurt or cheese she said that was fine but didn't really give me any ideas of what to do from there. Your response was really helpful and I think I'll try that out.

I'm not sure if it is MSPI really the spitting up was the only symptom. Though eczema can be a symptom and the Dr said she had it back at her 3 month check-up, but the only spots were exactly where her strawberry patches were, which I thought was odd and more related to that then eczema. But that cleared up by about 5months...which is also when I stopped drinking milk...hmmm.

Well I'll try out some yogurt in the next couple of weeks once this sleeping is more under control and I'm well rested to watch for signs. Thanks again!!!

Buntybear · « **Reply #3 on:** January 13, 2012, 22:47:15 pm »

Olly would spit up after having milk through my BM too. How many times have you tried having a glass of milk? Maybe try again and see if she spits up? If so I wouldn't try anything to her directly IMHO. At the age of 9.5 months unless she has reflux I think spitting up would be a sign of something IYKWIM

deckchariot · « **Reply #4 on:** January 14, 2012, 00:31:55 am »

K never had eczema with the milk issue - it was intestinal for her - reflux, spitting, and mucous/blood in her stools. Great job to you for eliminating dairy even without a ton of support from your dr - I don't think it's a coincidence that you saw an improvement in your dd!

green100 · « **Reply #5 on:** January 14, 2012, 01:49:42 am »

Since I stopped I've tried a glass of milk twice, but that was back closer to 6 months. In both cases she had not spit up in a good two weeks and after I had the milk she would spit up again. I'll give it a go soon once we are sleeping better. I'd love to have a glass of milk...especially chocolate milk!

Buntybear · « **Reply #6 on:** January 14, 2012, 07:43:50 am »

Personally that is how I would try it, through my BM, whilst still BFibg obviously. Good luck!

deckchariot · « **Reply #7 on:** January 14, 2012, 15:06:20 pm »

if you'd like milk, have you tried almond/coconut milk? Silk makes a dark chocolate almond milk that is sinfully delicious!! But I think your plan sounds good - wait til sleep sorts out then you try something and see how she does - if she reacts to it in your milk, she will most certainly react (probably even stronger) if she gets it directly, so you'll know you need to wait.

green100 · « **Reply #8 on:** January 14, 2012, 20:26:49 pm »

If I drink a glass of milk and continue BF and she does spit up again, should I not try other dairy (yogurt or cheese) with her directly even though she doesn't react when I eat it through the BM?

Buntybear · « **Reply #9 on:** January 14, 2012, 21:26:45 pm »

If she reacts to the milk protein through your BM then I would imagine she is fairly sensitive to it and so would be reluctant to give it to her directly until at least 12 months x

green100 · « **Reply #10 on:** January 30, 2012, 19:21:42 pm »

Okay so had a glass of milk this am...DD had a BF ~ 3 hours later and then spit up 1 hour after that. Is that a reasonable time frame for it to get in to my milk and then for dd to react?

deckchariot · « **Reply #11 on:** January 30, 2012, 19:35:50 pm »

That seems really quick, but from what I understand the amount of time it takes something to get into your breast milk varies soooooooo widely, that there's really no way to tell. I'm so hesitant on any dairy I'm introducing, that if it were me, I'd say yes, it was the milk and no, she's not ready for it. If she doesn't normally spit up like that, and there's nothing else you can attribute it to, the milk seems a likely culprit.

Buntybear · « **Reply #12 on:** January 30, 2012, 19:40:46 pm »

I would take all dairy out and try again in a week (if the symptonms are all gone). If it is the same then you know it is the milk. HTH

green100 · « **Reply #13 on:** January 30, 2012, 20:31:53 pm »

When I cut out the milk I continued to eat cheese and yogurt, and she never seemed to react to that. Should I have eliminated those too?/Should I eliminate them now?

Thanks for the super quick responses. It certainly helps to know there are some suggestions when you are in the thick of things.

Buntybear · « **Reply #14 on:** January 30, 2012, 21:05:51 pm »

Sorry I would go back to how you were before. If she is ok with those foods go back to that x

deckchariot · « **Reply #15 on:** January 31, 2012, 00:15:58 am »

ditto to that - if she's ok with what you've done prior to this, I'd go back to that place, and then wait at least a month before trying any new dairy.

green100 · « **Reply #16 on:** February 29, 2012, 19:08:43 pm »

Tried again, DD didn't react as quickly this time. No spit up until the next day and the day after that. I'm in my last month of mat leave and would like to wean her to either goat's milk OR a coconut/almond combo. Any suggestions on what to try? I'm leaning towards goat's milk just for ease, no mixing required, but read that the goat's milk protein is similar to cow's milk but is more easily digested. The goat's milk would be pasteurized as that is all we have access to in Canada. If going this route should I try it myself first to see how DD manages it through the breast milk?

If we went the coconut/almond milk mix, obviously we would try each milk seperately before the mix. Due to DD early onset of eczema I've read that introduction of peanuts should be delayed, I know that peanuts are actually part of the legume family not a nut, but would there be any issue with the introduction of almond milk?

When would we try introducing milk or milk products like cheese and yogurt? I'm going to continue with morning and night time BF for at least a little while once I return to work, but don't plan on doing it long term just as part of the transition to daycare then stop once she is settled in, so I won't be able to test it through my breast milk much longer.

Wishing our family MD was more supportive. I've really felt like she is brushing off my concerns, so I've had to just kind of make my own way. Our next appt is her 1 yr well visit which is at the end of the month and I want to have weaned her to something before then. I don't want to be weaning and transition to daycare at the same time.

deckchariot · « **Reply #17 on:** March 02, 2012, 15:59:28 pm »

the slower reaction I would think is a good thing....

I introduced goat's milk into my diet when dd2 was 6 mos old, and she was fine. We just introduced it to her last week and she's been fine. That's her first direct "dairy". She's been drinking coconut milk since she was 10 mos, but having it in her cereal since she was 6 mos. She's had some almond milk, but mostly just coconut.

My plan has always been to try stuff myself first and then give it to dd2. So I began with goat's milk/cheese when she was 6 mos, then I did yogurt (around 8mos), butter/milk in baked goods (9mos), then hard/aged cheeses (10 mos), and then small amounts of any kind of cheese (11mos). I accidentally had some milk in oatmeal about a month ago and she reacted to that, so I've not had any more regular milk and I'm probably not going to until she's weaned, it's just easier.

We've just started introducing goat's milk/cheese with her and I'll give that probably 3-4 weeks, then do yogurt, then butter/milk in baked goods etc. all very, very slowly - maybe every 3-4 weeks if she's doing well. She's been doing so well I just don't want to go back to the awful place we were in before the MSPI was diagnosed.

green100 · « **Reply #18 on:** March 02, 2012, 20:19:17 pm »

I struggle at times because we don't have a Dx, just my observations. I had a glass of goat's milk today...but haven't breast fed yet so we'll see. I was looking at my options for coconut milk and there were 2L containers in the organic dairy section, but when I looked at the ingredients there seemed to be a lot other ingredients one of which was sugar. It was actually called coconut milk beverage. Or in the asian food section there was coconut milk in a can, but I feel like we would go through a lot of cans of coconut milk in a day. I was hoping to go organic but couldn't find organic coconut milk. I might have to source out some health food stores...but that would certainly be much less convenient when it comes to grocery shopping.

Fingers crossed that DD doesn't react to the goat's milk. We are lucky that her only reaction is spitting up, she's super happy and doesn't seem bothered by it at all. In fact loves playing with the spit up..."finger paint"!

Thanks for sharing Michelle!

deckchariot · « **Reply #19 on:** March 03, 2012, 15:55:44 pm »

it's always good to have a happy spitter

I hope she does well with goat's milk! We use the Silk brand of coconut milk, it is exceedingly sweet, but it's got good fat in it and loads of calcium, and it's cheaper than goat's milk here. I've been told the coconut milk in a can is good too, but I'm with you, we'd go through it so fast.

green100 · « **Reply #20 on:** March 04, 2012, 02:26:17 am »

So far so good...I had goat's milk yesterday and today with no spitting up yet. Assuming all clear I'd give her some next week...should I try goat cheese first or would the milk be okay? I know the general idea is to give more processed items first, but with the cheese being soft I wasn't sure if it would matter. I'm not super excited to finish the goat's milk...it's okay but I prefer it in the cheese form!

deckchariot · « **Reply #21 on:** March 04, 2012, 21:00:36 pm »

we do it in cheese form here - because it's soooooooo yummy! I'm glad she's doing fine with you having goat's milk!

green100 · « **Reply #22 on:** March 05, 2012, 13:19:11 pm »

Now I'm beginning to wonder because she was sleeping fitfully last night...she woke later in the evening and needed settling and then woke at 4:30am and I made her wait until 5am for a BF. We've just worked super hard on EW and she was waking at 5:30 - 6am. She also didn't have as good of an afternoon nap...this also could be related to the 2:1 transition and we just kind of plateaued at a new routine and really we should have kept capping and moving the am nap...

Yesterday she also had some crusties on her ear when she woke from her am nap, which may or may not have been spit up, it could have just been drool. I couldn't see any obvious signs on her crib sheet, but it is cream in colour so wouldn't show up very well.

What to do...wish she could just tell me if it was the goat's milk or not! I'm eager to do whatever it takes to not wake up at 4:30am, but we also need to figure something out for "milk" ASAP as it's 4 weeks today that I return to work. I was trying to avoid formula, but i might have to get Alimentum for now.

deckchariot · « **Reply #23 on:** March 05, 2012, 15:58:00 pm »

it's so hard to know exactly what the issue is, isn't it? That 2 to 1 switch messes things up, as can teething. I'd say if she's not spitting up (that you can tell), I'd try goat's milk again and see if the fitful sleep continues. You could also try changing the routine and see if that helps. How old is she now?

green100 · « **Reply #24 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:11:43 pm »

DD is just over 11 months old. Yesterdays schedule was all wonky as we had a playdate with a friend, bedtime was extra late but she slept well...I didn't have any goat's milk yesterday. I'll try a glass today and see what happens. She also developed a pretty extensive diaper rash yesterday. I'll watch that too. I never counted diaper rash as a symptom though we did have issues with this when she was young...I thought it was associated with our cloth diapers as we were having some washing issues with them and I think she was reacting to the detergent build up. I feel like that did clear up before I stopped drinking milk when we switched detergents.

green100 · « **Reply #25 on:** March 06, 2012, 12:22:49 pm »

When I was researching whether it was okay to introduce almond milk to DD, i've found that because she had eczema (and both DH and I do) + she has a food sensitivity, that tree nuts (including coconuts) should be avoided until age 3, I was already aware of this for peanuts but didn't know it applied to tree nuts too. I also never thought of a coconut as a tree nut, but i guess so! So if this next goat's milk trial is unsuccessful I'll proceed with alimentum or nutragen.

deckchariot · « **Reply #26 on:** March 06, 2012, 20:06:53 pm »

I'm not sure why coconut is considered a tree nut, but it is, so yes, probably best to wait on that. Do you have oat milk or hemp milk available? I know some MSPI moms who use those. Of course if the goat's milk works, that gives you an option too. The eczema could likely be caused by her milk intolerance.

green100 · « **Reply #27 on:** March 07, 2012, 19:41:45 pm »

Well I've finished off the carton of goat's milk and I've seen no signs. That bad night, might have just been a one off. Fingers crossed things continue to go well over the next couple of days and then we'll let DD try some goat's cheese.

deckchariot · « **Reply #28 on:** March 09, 2012, 16:13:06 pm »

So glad things are going well!! I know it's such a relief when you find something that works! Good luck with the goat cheese. K is doing great with it here. I'm planning on trying yogurt in another week or so.

green100 · « **Reply #29 on:** March 15, 2012, 23:37:33 pm »

That's a negative on the goat's cheese BUT only because she was turning her nose up at it. We'll keep plugging away at it. In the mean time, I looked in to hemp milk and we've tried it over the last few days. Only thing I'm noticing is a diaper rash...not sure if it is her cloth diapers or the hemp milk. We'll try disposables with lots of bum bum balm to see if it clears up. Only thing is it has less fat than whole milk so we'll have to be extra dilligent with ensuring she gets enough fat from other sources. She loves avocado so that is helpful.

Frustrating is that our families keeps saying why don't you just try giving her some milk? Clearly they think I'm crazy too. I'm glad to have a place to vent and explore options! Thanks!

Michelle, did you trial yogurt? hope it was successful!

deckchariot · « **Reply #30 on:** March 16, 2012, 00:33:44 am »

I'm terrified to do milk! Not just for Katie but even for me, so I totally know where you're coming from! bummer on the goat cheese - how did you try it? Katie does eat it plain, but I also spread it on toast or put it in eggs. I tried yogurt tonight with dinner (pasta/ham salad made with yogurt). She ate it fine, so we'll see.....

getting fat in is a problem we have too. She's in the 20% for her height and weight, so she's tiny. She like avocado, I just don't do it very often.

did the diaper rash start when you started the hemp milk? hmm.....if it doesn't clear up then my guess would be some sort of allergic reaction. I don't know anyone else who's had an issue with it, but my experience with hemp milk is pretty limited. I hope that's not it!

green100 · « **Reply #31 on:** March 16, 2012, 02:38:59 am »

yes the diaper rash appeared in the last day or so after starting the hemp milk BUT we also started using cloth over night around then which we hadn't been doing recently. Fingers crossed it's just a diaper issue...I'm running out of weaning options! Well there is always formula.

Tried the goat's cheese with toast, and plain. Tried goat's yogurt plain and it was too tart even for me and then with lots of mango puree and still no go. Even with the mango puree when I ate it I added honey. It does have a very distinct taste which not everyone likes.

deckchariot · « **Reply #32 on:** March 16, 2012, 19:23:11 pm »

I've never had goat's yogurt, but I'm guessing that would be too tart for me too. We tried several different versions of cheese and found one that is super mild, so that may be why Katie likes it. So far she seems fine with the yogurt - no spit up, no eczema and she sttn last night. Naps are bad, but that's the 2 to 1 switch I think.

We cd as well but use disposables at night - I just could pack it full enough to keep her all night without it becoming too bulky to get jammies on. Plus, I didn't like the thought of her in the massive wet diaper all night. Do you use a fleece liner to wick the moisture away? Is the rash clearing up?

green100 · « **Reply #33 on:** March 17, 2012, 12:07:35 pm »

Rash is clearing. Going to try cloth again today, but back to disposables overnight. We did use a fleece liner overnight, but usually we don't during the day and just use a biodegradable liner.

sttn - nice!

Not sure what our next step is? do I do another trial of me drinking milk? Should I not start yogurt or cheese until milk through BM is okay? She's never had an issue with me eating those. I was only planning on BF through the daycare transition then was going to stop once we were good and settled in to a routine, so I don't think that will be much longer, maybe 6 weeks.

deckchariot · « **Reply #34 on:** March 18, 2012, 17:04:52 pm »

glad the rash is clearing

In terms of what to try next, that depends on what's more important to you. For us, I've eaten everything except plain milk, and I'm good with staying there til we're done bfing (probably a couple months for us, but not much more) and I'd rather focus on seeing what Katie can eat. So we're giving yogurt a couple more weeks and then we'll try butter in cooked stuff, then cheeses etc. So it really depends on what you want to try - milk for you or more stuff for her? If the goal is to get to milk for her, I'd keep on the gradual process on reintroduction for her, but that's just my thoughts.

green100 · « **Reply #35 on:** March 18, 2012, 19:49:32 pm »

Thanks! I found another culprit for the diaper rash...cutting tooth number 7, and it looks like 8, 9, and 10 are close behind. Seems that the cd aggrevate it more, probably because they keep the area slightly wetter. I think that it's not the hemp milk, but will keep monitoring closely. I think we'll proceed with introducing items to her instead now. Wanted to try yogurt (to use as a topping on her bday cake in lieu of icing) but she won't let me feed it to her or pick up anything that has been dipped in it. Maybe she just knows she's not ready for it?

Thanks again!

deckchariot · « **Reply #36 on:** March 20, 2012, 00:19:38 am »

ugh...teething....that can mess everything up because I'm always wondering "is that eczema or is she drooling too much?" same with sleep disturbances...and diaper rashes.....but at least it doesn't appear to be the hemp milk

babies really do seem to know things, so maybe she does know it's not time for yogurt yet. I made a dairy free cake/frosting for Katie's bday if you're interested I can send you the links. It was really tasty!

green100 · « **Reply #37 on:** March 20, 2012, 11:59:32 am »

Sure I'd love the link! We made a apple/banana cake which was pretty good, but I'm stuck on the icing as the one I was going to try was yogurt and pineapple...but with the no go on yogurt, she was just going to get a plain cake. Not so exciting for 1st bday cake pics!

She ate a small amount of cheese yesterday. So we'll try a little more today and see how that goes. She is in a foul mood today but again I think it's because of the teething.

deckchariot · « **Reply #38 on:** March 20, 2012, 18:09:28 pm »

I'm in a foul mood when they're teething

Here's the cake I made: http://dairyfreecooking.about.com/od/cakes/r/yellowcake.htm and here's the frosting: http://dairyfreecooking.about.com/od/sweetsaucesfrostings/r/coconutfrosting.htm

I used Earth's Balance psuedo butter - the soy free variety. It was fine in the cake, but in the frosting, because it's a tub spread and not a stick spread, it made the frosting a bit runny, so I needed more powdered sugar (next time, I'd use less milk I think). And I had to frost fast because the room was warm and that made the frosting softer. But I popped it in the fridge and it hardened nicely, so I did another quick layer of frosting the morning of to cover any imperfections. I know it's got coconut in it, but you could eliminate that if allergies are a concern and just use your hemp milk. That website has lots of good dairy free recipes, I use it all the time.

I hope the cheese goes well!!

green100 · « **Reply #39 on:** March 20, 2012, 23:38:37 pm »

Thanks for the link! Lots of options!

Day 2 of cheese and she wouldn't really eat any, just the smallest amount. Then after dinner DH was asking about the rash around her mouth and I looked and there was a rash...hoping it's just from all the drooling due to teething.

deckchariot · « **Reply #40 on:** March 21, 2012, 11:17:15 am »

ugh....I hope it's just from teething....but I"d keep a close watch on it - especially if she's hesitant to eat more cheese - her tummy may be bothering her, but she can't tell you that.

green100 · « **Reply #41 on:** April 01, 2012, 17:52:30 pm »

DD is loving cheese now. Especially melted with pasta. We've tried milk baked in stuff too, she ate so little of it we'll have to try a few more times to be sure. After she's more settled in to daycare and not trying so much new stuff there, we'll try some milk. Over all things are going very well.

That rash I think is from the juice of more acidic foods sitting on her face too long. She does have pretty sensitive skin and hates having her face washed!

deckchariot · « **Reply #42 on:** April 03, 2012, 00:34:56 am »

YAY!!! That's wonderful!!! We're going away on vacation next week, but when we get back we're going to try milk/butter in cooked things and cheese. I'm so eager to be done with diet restrictions for the both of us!

green100 · « **Reply #43 on:** April 03, 2012, 23:35:25 pm »

Agreed!!! Enjoy your trip and good luck with the trials when you return!

green100 · « **Reply #44 on:** May 05, 2012, 12:00:23 pm »

So here we are a month later loving cheese, hemp milk, eating stuff with milk baked in to it, still not liking yogurt but seems to have no reaction to it. Everything is going well with the transition to daycare, napping well, sttn, normal poops, no spitting up no eczema. We decided to start trying cow's milk last week an ounce a day. She tried for 2 days then got sick with some virus (fever and rash) so we stopped the trial. A week later she's back to normal we start the trial again and 2 days later she's got a runny nose, seems to be a head cold. Any chance the illnesses are related to the cow's milk? I guess it could depress her immune system?

Buntybear · « **Reply #45 on:** May 05, 2012, 17:38:05 pm »

Hmm, could be

Dairy can be mucuos forming. I guess the only way forward is to keep trying! A third cold in as many weeks is unlikely

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Author Topic: Help with plan to intro milk (Read 8605 times)