Help with our second nap!!! Please! :)

[LittleOne603]

Ok, thanks! She goes to sleep on her own, I don't have to do anything, she just sometimes talks and rolls around for a while, and other times she cries just a little but I don't go to her, I always let her put herself to sleep, unless of course she is really upset! During naps when she wakes up early, I use to go in and pt/sh but anytime I go in recently she just gets more upset, as if to say, wait a minute you are in here so pick me up already!! She doesn't want to pat or shush or anything! So therefore I just leave her be, and most times she will fall back asleep.

Today I will say was really rough, she was really fussy and wanting to be held a lot, so I suspect pain like you said, so maybe I just give it some time and see what happens. Otherwise she is just all over the place even though I am keeping the A times consistant.

I can try to intervene since she may be in pain with the naps, but I have a feeling she will just follow suit on that, but worth a try!

Thanks again, I hope to have better news to report in a few days!

Again, I really appreciate you taking the time to respond to my posts, it really mean a lot and I greatly greatly appreciate it!

[creations]

I can remember times DS getting annoyed that I was interfering with his naps too.  They do need to be given a chance to re-settle.  Another thing I do, if he is upset or sitting/standing up when he wakes early from a nap is I PU just for a little cuddle.  The general idea is that you don't need to PU then, just PD (lie back down) but if I do that he gets really upset so I PU for a moment, give a cuddle and calm voice then PD.  There's a fine line, if I hold on to him too long he gets annoyed and will shout and cry about wanting to be put down!

Keep us posted x

[LittleOne603]

Ok, I just wanted to give an update and ask a question...

She has had a few good nights followed by a few bad nights, followed by a few good nights, this seems to be the trend. She had her first two teeth poke through on the 27th of January and nothing since, however I attribute the bad nights to teeth, as she will just scream and be upset and nothing seems to settle her back to sleep. Yet no more teeth have shown up, I don't know what to make of it.

Anyway, she slept through last night but was up at 5:30AM, which seems typical when her 2nd nap goes crazy, she only slep about 30 mins yesterday so wasn't suprised at the 5:30 AM waking. I put her down for her first nap at 9, and AMAZINGLY she slept till 11, that was a first! Two hour nap, wow, amazing. So then my question was when do I put her down for her 2nd, I assume 2hr 45 was not needed since she had a sufficient nap, so I did 3 hours and boy was she mad! I put her in her crib and she just screamed and screamed and screamed, nothing I could just let go, I picked her up and comforted her but when I put her back down, absolute terror! Oh my! So I kept doing this a few times, nothing, I rocked her and she calmed and fell asleep after only a few mins of crying, I laid her down and of course she was screaming instantly, I rubbed her back and she seemed fine and has been asleep for about 25 mins so far. I don't ever want to rock to sleep but not sure what else to do, or if my A time was just off for her?

Any ideas? Again, thanks so much for helping me through this!

[creations]

Hi there.  How old is she now?

Teeth can hurt even when they are not cutting, just the movement can be painful and sometimes teeth move (pain) then stop for a while (apparently no pain but no new tooth either).

Great news on the morning nap
Sounds like an UT protest at the second nap.  I found it quite stressful be in that situation sometimes so I would take DS to go play for another 10 mins instead of fighting to get the nap, sometimes the crying can take them past the UT into OT because they are too upset to go to sleep. I think you've done the right thing by rocking her to sleep on this occasion.

[LittleOne603]

She was 8 months on the 3rd, so she is 8 months 2 weeks today (Friday). The same thing happened again today, she took a two hour morning nap after A time of 3 hr 30 plus mins, and then after her two hour nap I tried to put her down at 3 hr A, and she was irrate, not as bad as yesterday but still bad, she did eventually put herself to sleep without me rocking etc, but she only slept for 21 mins, so I guess I need to extend her A time for nap # 2 when she has a two hour nap in the AM, I hope I can try again tomorrow and see if I can do 3 hr 15 or so? So hard to figure out, and so shocked I got a great morning nap again!

[creations]

Another great morning nap YaY!

Yes I think it sounds like an A increase is needed before that second nap.  Increase by 10 or 15 mins (see how she is with it), try that for a couple of days I should think, then maybe up again to 3hr 30.
At what A time did she eventually go to sleep for that second upset nap?

[LittleOne603]

I gave it some time and unfortunately she ended up having pink eye, followed by a horrible cold and then a double ear infection. So yes I had 10 days of no sleep and craziness to say the least. She is off her antibiotics now and has been sleeping through the night again for 8 days or so, her naps on the other hand are as bad as they were when I first started posting. Worse actually!!! I can't even get her to go down for her first nap without crying, which is not typical of her. So both  naps are bad, regardless of when she gets up I put her down for her first nap at 3 hr 30 mins and at most I get 1 hour and that is on a good day. Her second nap I keep trying different A times b/c she only has a short morning nap and nothing seems to be working, I have done 2hr 45, still screaming and short nap, I have done 3 hr 15 mins, still screaming and short nap. I dread naps and I dread hearing her cry through the monitor. I really don't know what to do anymore.

Is she still sick? Is she not 100% yet and can STTN but not naps? I have no idea what is going on! I am so stressed out and going crazy, I just don't know what to do anymore! I hate feelingl like such a failure b.c I can't get my daughter to sleep! UGH!

[LittleOne603]

As a quick follow up, I was writing my last post after I had just put her down for her afternon nap, it has been 3 hrs and 45 mins of A is time at this point and she is still upsest. I think it was about 3 hr 15 mins when I first started to get her ready for this nap and she is still up. Her crying has calmed a bit and it not constant right now so I know she will be asleep soon, but seems so long. I know she is OT, right, I can't imagine at this point it is anything else. UGH!!!

[creations]

So many hugs to you!!  This is a very hard time for you.  It is so so difficult when LOs are poorly and don't sleep and don't give us a chance to re-energise ourselves so we can be at our best for them.

How old is she now?

Can I also just clarify the crying at naps.  Is it a mantra cry or a full on screaming blue murder?  When does she start the crying (during wind down, as you enter the bedroom or after being put in the cot etc) and what are you doing at the moment when putting her down and she is crying?
Also how is her mood after the nap, when she wakes and during the following A time?

[LittleOne603]

Thanks for understanding!!

She is 9 months now, as of the 3rd. The crying when I put her down is not a mantra cry, sometimes it turns into that and I know she is about to fall asleep but for the most part it is just crying. If she does start to cry really hard I do go in and rub her back or have to pick her up, typically this does not help, but I hate to hear her cry like that so I have to go in.

As for when she starts to cry, it is typically as I start to put her in the crib. Our wind down isn't very long, I change her diaper and put her in a sleep sack, then I just cradle her in my arms and start humming a lullabye. I walk around the house once and start upstairs and into her room, I put on the monitor and turn on her CD and typically put her right down. (Maybe I need a better wind down?) She typically starts to cry once I lay her down, sometimes she just grabs her blankies or lovie and will chat a min or so then start to cry.

After my last post she did fall asleep within minutes so it was about 3 hr 50 mins A time and she actually slept for 1 hour, which COMPLETELY shocked me, typically she is up at 28 mins when she does that.

For the most part when she wakes up she is crying unless she makes it for 1 hour or longer. When we would get 2 hour or 1.5 hr naps she would wake up talking etc., so I know she is well rested then.

She is perfectly happy now after an hour nap, though she has been yawning some so I assume she could have done more but just couldn't!!

THANK YOU!!!

[RachelC]

Hi there!  Firstly {{{{hugs}}}}

I do need to stress that here on BW we in no way condone allows a baby to cry herself to sleep alone.  Tracy believed that there are much more gentler ways to assist a baby to learn how to put herself to sleep.  Please stay with her as she cries.

My apologies as I have not read the entire thread.  Have you tried PU/PD to help her settle?

Here are some links you should be aware of.
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63839.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=163042.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=211289.0

If you would like our help, we need you to commit to not allow her to cry it out alone.

[creations]

As for when she starts to cry, it is typically as I start to put her in the crib.

It's difficult to say in this circumstance if she is crying in an attempt to communicate to you that she is not yet ready for a nap (this can happen with UT naps) or because she feels insecure and knows you are going to leave her.  So at the moment it is really hard to suggest what A time might help as an A time alone will not get a baby to sleep happily.

More ((hugs)) for you.  It must feel very hard for you not knowing what to do.
Personally I would suggest you tell her things are going to be different from here on in, that you will be in this together as a team and that you will always be there for her when she needs you.  Then when you put her for naps stay with her, if she doesn't like shush/pat you can rub her tummy/back/leg whatever she finds soothing.  If she throws your hand away from her just sit with her.  You can verbally reassure so she knows you are in the room.  I say to my DS 'everything's ok, I'm here, everything's ok, mummy is here with you, it's sleepy time now' because even with an independent sleeper there are times he needs me (illness and so on).  And when I leave the room (when he is happy) I tell him, 'call if you need me' and I always return immediately if he cries.

xx

[LittleOne603]

Ok, so she continues to be a mystery to me!

Today her morning A was 3 hr 30 mins and she slept for 1 hr 9 mins. Then I went ahead and did her ssecond A at 3 hr 30 mins as well, she went down pretty easy but was up (upset) at 21 mins! OT? Really? I should have extended her A time?

So I have two questions. One, is it possible that a 9 month old can have an A Time of more than 3 hr 30 mins?

And if so, my next question is where do we go from here? If she gets napping better and her A time is so long, we can't do a 4 hour schedule, at least not 4 bottles and 3 meals at 7, 11, 3 and 7. What does the schedule turn into after this point? When does this typically happen? Is it around this time or later?

Sorry I am just thinking ahead and hoping that once I get her napping well it may not fit into the 4 hour schedule we are on right now.

Thanks again!

[RachelC]

I need to be sure that you are not continuing with CIO or CC, as we cannot help in that situation.  Tracy was firmly against those methods and her methods will not work in conjunction with those.  Please let us know where you stand on this so we can best advise you.  Thanks 

[LittleOne603]

I am not sure what any of that means, sorry! Please let me know, thanks!