Please please help! Can't take any more of my 8 month old NWs!

[beckygatt]

Hi,

My DD2 is 8 months old. She sleeps independently, no props, just sucks her thumb. She is also a tummy sleeper and has been since quite young. Until about 4 months she had started to stretch out longer between feeds at night and was doing 5-6hrs regularly and even a few stretches of 8-9hrs. At around 4 months NWs got more frequent again and haven't improved since. She wakes every 3-4hrs at night and has a full feed (so I assume she is hungry). She is EBF but a few days ago I started giving her a bottle of HIPP night time milk at BT in the hope it would keep her for longer. It did keep her a bit longer once or twice but nothing concrete yet. She also sometimes wakes before 3hrs, in which case I assume it must be gas or teeth. I am so tired and fed up of waking up  so much at night. I really want to try and sort this out. My DD1 also wakes me at night sometimes, which makes me even more frustrated!

During the day DD2 feeds every 4 hrs and has 3 solid meals. She is a really good calm baby but these NWs are getting too much! Here is my EASY in case anything seems relevant there.

7/7.30 - wake up
8 - BF
8.30 - solids
10/10.30 - nap (anything from 1-2hrs)
12 - BF
12.30 - solids
2.30/3 - nap (depending on length of 1st nap. Will nap for around 1hr usually)
3.30/4 - BF
6 - supper, bath
7/7.30 - bottle of night time milk and bedtime.

She will usually wake up at 10 or 11 for a feed, then 2 or 3, and on bad nights will have a 3rd one.

Sorry this is so long, would really appreciate some help though! Thanks

[*Becky*]

your days look pretty good to me Becky. 3 solid meals, 4 milk feeds, appropriate A times. What is her usual day sleep total? Is it more likely to be 2 1 hour naps or longer?

Yk - I know this may not be what you want to hear but at this age I would be cutting out some of these night feeds. Not all of them as she is BF and she 'may' need a feed still but IMO she does not NEED 3 night feeds.

Have you tried settling her without a feed recently? Have you tried PUPD? It really could be that she has got used to feeding at night.

I think it would be worth setting a goal i.e. not feeding before midnight or 1am and trying to resettle her before that. I would really think that with 3 solid meals and her milk in the day she is not starving.

What do you think?

[amayzie]

When she wakes at night what is she doing? Crying? Happy playing? How long do you leave her before going in?

[clazzat]

Sounds like you are exactly where I was about 4 weeks ago, becky. I'm sorry to say that I agree with becky - I think the issue is the nfs. I convinced myself that x *needed* to be fed at night because he is so small and he has never managed without a night feed, but having got to the point where he had been going 6-7 hours before needing a feed, it started creeping earlier and earlier. I did know from that that he didn't actually need it and it was a habit, so I decided that I wouldn't feed him before 1am. After a week or so of that, he had a really unsettled night and dh brought him downstairs to sleep on the sofa bed. I came down at about 1.30 to do my shift, and when I lay down next to x he gave me no sign that he was hungry so I didn't feed him and he slept till 5. Since then I have resolved not to feed him - he had a couple of nights when he woke up a couple of times but he settled within 10 minutes of me stroking his head, and apart from that most nights have been pretty good. Last night he slept from 6.30 till 4.50 without a squeak! I truly never thought that was going to happen!

So, long story short, I think you need to steel yourself to stop feeding her overnight because I really do think that is your problem.

[beckygatt]

Thanks ladies! I agree that she doesn't need all those feeds. I haven't really tried properly to settle without a feed tbh, was hoping she'd drop them alone, especially as BF isn't a prop and she can self soothe. I just hate the thought of her going hungry but I guess pupd is probably the best option...?

She usually has a long nap of 1.5-2hrs and another of about 1hr. When she wakes up she either fusses and then starts to cry, or might cry loudly right away, in which case I assume it is gas/teeth. I usually give her a minute or so before going in. That's another thing that worries me about pupd; what if she's uncomfortable?

So would you suggest I do pupd and only feed at 1am? How long is it likely to take for this to work?

[*Becky*]

well if you can settle her without doing PUPD i.e. your normal method then try that. With M I stroke her head but she is pretty easy to settle generally.

Yes I would think 1am is perfectly reasonable....you 'should' see results within 3-5 days I would say, maybe even sooner but with PUPD there is usually a regression which is worth bearing in mind.

Someone else hopefully will chip in with the actual process of PUPD as I have never done it.....

[amayzie]

Just as a suggestion on the settling- i also havent done PUPD, but hamish has been terrible to settle a few nights recently- i've been doing more gentle withdrawal... so i put my hand on him, and pat his head and sing a little song, then stop patting, slowly remove my hand quieten my singing and slowly leave the room- all before he's properly asleep (actually the first night he was asleep- but then got better). I think this is correct from what i've read.. you just have to keep moving or else you can get trapped and become the prop! Just so you have another idea...

[beckygatt]

I could try just patting and singing a song but tbh I doubt she will settle like that. I am not too keen on pupd but I suspect it may be the only way. She will go to sleep very easily for a nap or BT but if she wakes up she pretty much expects a feed

[clazzat]

The thing is, even if bf isn't a prop (it has never been for us as I can't feed him to sleep even when I want to!), they get used to needing a full tummy to go back to sleep.

I never did pupd, I just went in and put a hand on his head and held his hand. It didn't really take any time - the first night I decided not to feed him he woke up twice and only took about 10 minutes to settle each time. Since then most wakes have not required much intervention. There have been a couple of nights when he has been uncomfortable and it has been very obvious so I have snuggled with him instead of trying to resettle.

[beckygatt]

Thanks so much, I will try that. I just have to do something, its gone on long enough! Any thoughts on wether to give a bottle at night time? I worry I don't have enough milk to satisfy her at night

[clazzat]

I wouldn't worry too much about your supply at night - not least because we have just established that she doesn't need feeding at night!

[*Becky*]

I reckon if you are giving a bottle at bedtime she should be fine....is she a good solids eater?

[beckygatt]

She's doing blw. She gets quite a lot down most days.

[amayzie]

You should be right with supply overnight- my guy will go ages with no night feeds but then if he wakes for one he always seems happy enough... i think that he probably won't need a 'full' feed anyway...

[amayzie]

sorry i meant 'she' won't need a full feed.. brain snap...