3 months EASY troubles

[kitcat]

Thanks. I think we are getting close to the A times. Now that I'm not trying to extend her at night we are back to 1.5 for the first A time and slightly shorter for the others. I keep messing the third one (two overtired ones and today had to cut the nap short to go to a family engagement). 

I will need to figure something out this week given I will need to drop off my eldest at daycare and that will likely change the routine a little. It's not as simple keeping nor establishing EASY with the second one... I'm trying but everyday life is making it more complicated !

[kitcat]

Ok we are getting there though there are still some A times to fiddle with but I'm feeling a bit more hopeful. Unfortunately it is still not solid and not really changing my nw.

I'm hoping things solidify as the week progresses but have a couple questions. I'm noticing that I'm very slowly moving to a 4h EASY (just over 3h now sometimes). For the life of me I can't remember how this worked with my first... My problem is as the 3h becomes 3h15 and 3h30 my feedings are getting jammed at the end of the day... The Es for the day are looking like 7, 10:15, 1:30/45, 4:45, 7, df....

Also, any suggestions for the duration for the last A after the catnap at this age?

Thanks.

Cat

[Jiinx]

hi hun!
 As you move to 4 hours (it was really confusing to me too), one of the feeds gets dropped. As their stomach gets bigger ..they need less frequent feedings and are now taking bigger feeds every 3.5 - 4 hours. Does that help? So very soon, you'll be doing 4 feeds a day, plus a day feed.

I also found the last two feeds were also close together for me as well. Which is fine as your milk is more richer at night with the hindmilk rather than the foremilk. So your milk supply isn't as much as the evening approaches and she may be a bit a more peckish.

Would you like to post your EASY again and let us know which areas need a bit more of a routine tweak? Is she still doing a couple of night feeds?

[kitcat]

Sure but I'm not as optimistic as before. Yesterday was awful and today is going to be the same at this rate... Arg

So she wakes consistently around 3 am for a nf. After that we are up around 7 am. I think the proper A times for the day need to decrease as the day goes on by about 5 minutes. I think it should be 1h25, 1h20 and 1h15 as long as I get good naps from the start. When I combine the last two weeks of data it should work.... Problem is the last three days have started with an OT nap so I can't test it out.

This was yesterday

Awake 6:50
E
A
S 8:20-25 rock and music (miscaculated and kept up 10 minutes too much oops)
so OT nap and woke midway through around 9:10 shh patted until 9:45 went back into ds
woke at 10:45

E 10:50
A
S 12-12:05 rock and music
shh patt until 12:15
12:55 woke tried to get back to sleep but no success OT pretty sure since eyes bright open and many yawns
1:35 gave up

E
S 2:35-2:40 rock
2:50 ds but woke at 3:15 left in crib quiet until 3:40

E 3:45 - 4h
S shh patted until 4:35 gave up but left in crib
talked and started fussing around 4:50 gave 10 minutes and she settled on her own up again by 5:45

E 6:30 with aim of 7 bedtime since a long day
put in crib awake at 7:15 talked and sucked her fingers (which she got out of her swaddle) until about 8

tried tanking her up at 9pm to see if woudl help with nw

df just after 11

[kitcat]

Well today is promising to be another fun day.

So far we got a night waking at 3:20 she talked until almost 4 am.I thought she wasn't all that hungry so I assisted her bakc into deep sleep. She went back down in about 30 minutes with no fuss but woke again at 5:15. I fed her since I thought she was likely hungry this time. Also woke fussing and not talking. Didn't give her much at 5:15 (though can't be sure 100% since nursing and she is getting more efficient) since knew the house would be up in less than an hour. She was up again at 6:45.

E tried to feed at 7:45 but no hungry so barely ate
A until 8:00
S 8-8:05 rock with music (thought slighter shorter A due to shorter night, based on notes from previous two weeks)
swaddled and put in crib, was really calm so I left her there, talked off an on and put herself down by 8:30 though got her hand out. I'm also concerned she may have been up longer than she can handle...
9:20 half asleep making noise and hand moving on her face (I know she wants to try and suck her hand/thumb but still having trouble when not awake or tired)
9:30 crying (decided to give her a bit of time to sort it out since I know she can settle on her own and still tired)
9:36 resettled on her own and back asleep I think... eyes are closed but noise coming from her room at times....

Will need to have a shorter second A than yesterday since the nap was slightly interrupted. I am still not seeing tired signs.

Yesterday for the first EASYs, when I missed the window, she was cooing in her bouncy chair making big smiles.... No jerks, looking at me though I was not encouraging her, no hand in mouth/face/eyes, no yawn!!! am I missing a sign I should be looking for....

Advice of any kind would be appreciated. I would really like to figure out her sleepy cues more than anything. At this point, I am only mostly watching the clock since the cues are still absent for me... I have had my mom, sister and friend mom of three keep an eye out for them and no-one is really seeing anything. Everytime I put her down she is winding down but still in good mood.

[kitcat]

Some success to report. My lo did resettle until just after 10.

After which the day went almost perfect!

E 10:10
A
S 11:15-11:20 rock
swaddle and lay in crib, went off on her own no fussing
I woke at 2pm

E
A
S 3:10-15 rock some fussing during
put in crib talked until 3:50, went to sleep with a little fuss near the end
slept until 4:35 (did not bother to extend since day was long) Not sure if OT or UT here since usually can't handle a long A at this point but wonder if UT given 40 minutes....

E 4:45 (not all that hungry, only one side...)
A until 5:30
S rock and shh pat until 5:50 thought she needed it since a bit more tired from shorter nap
woke at 6:30

Bed at 7:40

I will try to feed again at 9 and do the df at 11. Let's cross our fingers for night time. Concerned about feeding if she wakes talking again. Would love some advice here. Would there may be value in trying w2s? Waking is happening between 3:05 and 3:20 pretty consistently and she didn't eat again until after 10 this morning ( and it wasn't for lakc of trying...)

Thanks again for all the help.

Cat

[RachelC]

If you truly don't think she's waking from hunger, go ahead and try w2s...

Glad she got it together for the rest of the day.

How far is she from 4 months now? 

[kitcat]

I'm pretty sure the 3am wake-up is not hunger but habit but thinking she still needs one later. How do you compensate skipping the first E of the morning when you feed at night.

She will be 4 months on the 29. I'm thinking we need to start towards a 4h EASY and depending on how she handles the longer A times it could happen sooner. For sure 4h between feeds is not the issue when the naps are working... Based on the last couple of weeks though I'm 100% she can't handle much more than 1h30 for a first A and she can't sustain that all day. Should I try and push her faster???

As I have more good days I will try and push out the other As to match the first... I'm also thinking I'm approaching another gs soon...

[kitcat]

Well the extra 9pm feed backfired yesterday. She almost completely refused the dreamfeed. She was up at 2:30 but resettled until just before 4. I'm pretty sure hunger was the issue there so fed without doubting. I'm thinking any gs is done now so back to just a df. I will see what tonight looks like. I took a day for myself and broke the day a lot with naps mostly in the car/chariot. It has been a long two weeks and needed some exercise. The weather was too nice to skip the cross-country outing. Bad mommy!!!

[Jiinx]

Hi Cat!
 Thanks for the detailed last couple of days. With her night waking if she's waking the same time each time within 10-15 minutes, I would also try W2S. However, I did have a feeding at night that was common periodically until 7 months. I usually just fed her until 30 seconds after my I felt my let down come down. If she was still hungry, she would protest and then I would just let her have a bit more and then put her down and she'd fall asleep.

In regards to her naps, I would rule out of OT, like you are doing, and do a short A time. However, if you find that does not work I would work the other way. I actually had the opposite problem and was getting yawns and would whisk her away to nap - to which she woke up 45 minutes later. Took me awhile to figure out she was UT. It's harder, in your case, when it's not precise. I do think that day she gave you a 40 minute nap was UT though. The fact that she's not giving you NWs (besides the one) is promising and indicates perhaps that she's not OT.

How is she otherwise? Gas? reflux?

[kitcat]

She is a great baby. Always smiling and happy to just look around lying on the floor. No gas, reflux or anything. Yesterday she did most of her sleep on the go and did an OT 30 minute nap when we got home followed by a short A and another catnap and she was happy as can be when I was getting her ready for bed. Could it be that I reversed the OT with the two naps and short A times?

I'm still not 100% sure on the night wakings being habit. Last night was 3:30.  Before I added the extra 9pm feed it was consistently 3:05 to 3:20 last week. I will monitor this week and decide on the w2s.  If wakings are always between 3 and 3:30 when would you go in and how much do you nudge/wake them?

Thanks for the feeding suggestion. I may try that as well. Just need to do one at a time and decide on the strategy.

So far today is going good one 1h20 so thinking will push the first A time by 5 more minutes. 1h20 is Ut right?

[Jiinx]

I do believe 1 hour and 20 mins is UT. My daughter always did 1 hr 10-25 naps all the time. Never motivated to sleep an extra minute than she had to.

I've never done w2s so I'm not sure how it works hun
* http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=213387.0

Maybe that will help?

It's so great that she's a happy baby! Makes dealing with OT easier

[kitcat]

Well still sorting out the days and things all over the place at night so feeding when she wakes....

Needing some advise though. I keep getting in the OT cycle I think.

Today I tried 1h25 for the first A got a good nap (had to wake)

after I thought 1h20 would be a good A but she woke after 30 minutes and shh by door to help her resettle.. I have tried 1h15 on other days but she was UT... Still no signs...

So for the third A though I would try 1h15 given broken nap and again 30 minutes and awake.... I am giving her a couple more minutes to try and settle since she is only fussing but pretty sure this means the rest of the day will be a mess. Good thing it is almost 4pm...

Any suggestions? Each time I try to increase to move towards 4h EASY it backfires. What shoudl be the A time averages at 3.5 months...

Arg will I ever figure her out...

[RachelC]

At this point, anywhere from 1:30-1:45... http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.msg689373#msg689373

I do wonder if your 30 minute naps are actually UT and maybe you need to push her second A out to 1:45 instead of cutting it shorter... worth a try?

[kitcat]

I thought 30 minutes was OT... Can it also be UT?  I guess I could try...