Author Topic: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems  (Read 3376 times)

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Offline Ima shel Alon

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I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« on: February 01, 2012, 17:38:10 pm »
Alon turned 1y last week and in the past few days we started having some problems with our EASY.
When he was 11 months old he started with one nap a day. We tried short AM, long PM nap, but it didn't work and when we tried 1 nap, all was well. He slept minimum of 1.5h, sometimes 2-2.5h and I thought that within time he will settle with the longer naps.
A few days ago he started napping for 1.15, 1.20h and that was always a sign for me to up A time. It usually takes us a few days, maybe a week till we hit the right A time.
This time though we keep on upping it and we are now on 6.40h A time. He has always been VERY VERY high with his A times. We increased to 6.40 from 5:45, but he still keeps on napping for 1.15h.
Now, what i am wondering is if I should keep increasing this A time till I hit the right one or now that he is older there is a different way of doing that. I am afraid that if we will keep upping the A time then his nap will be too late in the day. It's already at around 13:00 and if I want him to sleep 2h that will bring us to 15:00 and later than that will not be enough A time to BT. Am I going for a set nap at this age?
This bad nap effects our day in many aspects: we started having EW at 5AM, he is not taking solids well as he is always tired and BT is also very difficult.
Our EASY looks like this:
6:30 WU (on a good day. In a bad day he woke up at 5 and I try to settle till around 6)
13:10 Nap
14:30 WU
18:30 bath and in bed by 19 (tonight took 45min to settle)

He is taking 2 bottles a day, one in the morning (150ml) and the other at BT (270ml). He has another bottle before nap that we are weaning now (he was always fed to sleep, but I was happy with it because he is a kind of baby who wanted to be full for his naps, I didn't mind feeding as I knew that I could put him down without a feed, it would probably have taken me 10-15min of PD).
He has breakfast, lunch and supper and 2 snacks in between. He used to be a good eater, nowadays he leaves most of the food.

Thanks :)


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Offline clairebear79

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #1 on: February 01, 2012, 20:27:19 pm »
Hi there

Funnily enough 1.15 naps on 2 naps were also a sign for us to increase A time, but on 1 nap they are very much OT for us.  When we first transitioned we had a week or 2 of really good long naps & thought it was going great & then suddenly shorter naps hit & it was all down to OT.  Its a big change going from 3 shorter awake times to 2 much longer ones & it can take a good long while to adjust to it & cope with it fully.

What did your routine look like when you first made the jump to 1 nap?

Most LO's who switch to 1 nap start off at around 5hrs A time & this may gradually increase to 5.5hrs, but 6h 40 is pretty long.    So its my bet he's OT, and this is why he is taking a long time to settle & is starting to wake early.

My best advice to you would be to shorten that first A time right back to around 5hrs so nap at 11.30am, let him nap as long as he wants (hopefully 2-2.5hrs) then give him a good A time to BT of around 5hrs.  If his nap is very short, go for early bedtime.  Once his nights start to lengthen you can gradually work on shifting the nap later until it starts just after lunch.

WRT the eating - could be in part down to teething, a passing phase (my LO had a stage where he would barely eat) or tiredness.  So if you can get him past the OT you might find his eating improves.  If you are doing an earlier nap, you can try either an early lunch or a split lunch (some before, some after).

HTH.x

Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #2 on: February 02, 2012, 10:53:01 am »
Thanks Claire. I get what you are saying, but Alon did 5h A time when he was like 11 months old... Is there a way we need to go back to that? Like I said he was always on a very high A for his age and I just went by him and what is suggested.
So did I understand you right that now when they are a bit older 1:15h nap is not necessarily anymore UT?
I am willing to give it a try, going down to the A time we did closer to the switch which was 5:10h (he is a clock boy, no cues!). But my main question is do I just stick with it even though I get short naps and just make him used to it being his nap time, or after a while I increase the A time? How will I know when to up the A time if I'll get short naps for a long time?
Tonight he had a few NW, for most he managed to settle himself and then WU at 7:10, we didn't have that for ages! And so far he ate very well today, I think because he is not tired.
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #3 on: February 02, 2012, 11:47:26 am »
Yay I'm glad you had a better night. 

did I understand you right that now when they are a bit older 1:15h nap is not necessarily anymore UT?
Yes.  I found anything shorter than 1.5hrs was most definitely OT for us.  The best way to tell though is by his behaviour.  If he is well rested he will wake happy, & manage happily for most of the day.  If he is OT, he is more likely to cry on waking & then get really crabby & tired by BT - all the things you described in your original post.

WRT A times - so he's been on 1 nap for a month?  When we first started 1 nap (at 11/12 months) we did 4.75hrs A, took a
couple of months before this increased to 5 & at 17 months we are now at 5.5hrs.  If you feel 5hrs is too short for him (& of course you know him best) you could always do 5h 15 to 5.5hrs but IIWM I wouldn't go any longer than that just yet.  If he had been on 1 nap since 11months & he was 15/16months already I'd say try upping the A for sure, but it has only been a month & so I wouldn't expect his A times to jump to over 6hrs for quite a while yet.  Like you say in your first post, once the A time exceeds 6hrs then it doesn't give him long enough til BT & you are then entering nap capping territory.  Most LO's don't get to that stage til around 2yrs old (some 18months ish) so again, since he only just went to 1 nap recently I think this would be a little too early.

At the end of the day you have to do what you feel is right, IIWM I would most definitely try pulling the nap back a bit, even to 5.5hrs & just hold with that for a good week & see if you can get him caught up & back to napping a consistent 2hrs.

And as for knowing when it is time to up the A time - good question!  It varies from child to child but typical signs are taking a long time to settle for the nap, taking a long time to settle at BT, NW/EW.  Of course nap shortening is a sign as well, BUT you have to be careful in relying on this alone b/c it can also be a sign of OT.  They are so tricky!!!!!

HTH.x

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #4 on: February 02, 2012, 12:26:31 pm »
I've just been through similar with DS too Ima Shel Alon.  It IS confusing to begin with.  I also thought he needed a longer morning A but have found that cutting it back works better.  The short nap (it seemed to be 1hr 5 or 1hr 15 here) gradually extended up to 2hrs.  I wonder if it will extend more than this with time.  His mornings have become later than ever before and his nights longer than ever before.  He now has EBT every night (6.30) and sleeps 12 to 13hrs.  For a year we had 10 to 11hr nights.
The only advice I have is to give it a go with the shorter A.  I think it takes some time to adapt to the one nap and sort themselves out again. xx


Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #5 on: February 02, 2012, 19:08:35 pm »
Ok, after today I know that you are right. I put him down after 6:30h A time and he woke up after 35min crying and settled himself back to sleep. OT for sure.
I am going to take the A time back to around 5h, not sure what time I'll pick exactly and then like you suggested stick to it for a while.
I really really hope it will get better.
Thanks ladies for your help.
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #6 on: February 02, 2012, 19:21:00 pm »
Good luck hun.  Its taken my LO a long time to settle into the 1 nap days & get a consistent 2hr nap so just persevere & you will get there.

xx

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #7 on: February 13, 2012, 18:26:46 pm »
I am still lost and am looking for some reassurance, I guess.
I reduced Alon's A time on the 3rd of February to 5.40h. He is still sleeping 1.05, 1.10h. I don't know if I should keep on changing the A time (either reduce or increase it) or I should just leave it be for a while (for how long???). I feel insecure knowing when it would be time for more A time if he naps so short anyway.
And isn't he getting chronically OT with so little day sleep? We have EBT every day.
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #8 on: February 13, 2012, 21:31:45 pm »
Hiya is this his A time before the nap?  How long is he awake between nap & BT?  Can you post a typical day?  How are his nights looking?  How is he behaving now?

For my DS, naps of that length were OT.  If it helps, my DS is almost 18months & is doing 5.5hrs A time before his nap & napping 2hrs & 5hrs A to BT & I most certainly wouldn't say he's high sleep needs so TBH I think 5.40 may still be a bit high.  Of course need to see the rest of your day before I can comment for sure.

xx

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #9 on: February 13, 2012, 22:16:29 pm »
Hi.  Just wanted to reassure you that we still have EBT every day too.
DS is on roughly the same first A as he was at 10/11 months.  I found he did much better when I dropped his A back down and his nap increased to 2 hrs.
There's quite a lot of flexibility in our first A because we go to toddler group 3 mornings and he almost always falls asleep in the car on the way home, I can't stop him.  This makes his A short (as short as 4hrs today because he had a late-ish morning WU then nodded off in the car).  On a stay home day his first A is up as far as 5hr 15 (less stimulation by being at home and no lulling car movement!).
I allow for a 12.5 to 13hr night, so basically if the first A is 4hr something the second A will be 5hr something and vice versa.  BT is between 6 and 6.45, more often 6.30pm.


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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #10 on: February 14, 2012, 16:44:24 pm »
Thanks.
Before dropping to 1 nap he was on 5.30 A time, but I assumed that it's been a while since then and for sure he needs an extra 10min. I guess I assumed wrong. We will try to go back to 5.30h (despite my fear of the 45min nap).
He was always so high with his As, is it possible that he is suddenly an "average"? :)
His day looks like this:
6WU
11:40 Nap till 12:50 approx.
18:00 BT routine, in bed by 18:30

If he woke up later in the morning and the nap was pushed then, then BT will be 18:30, in bed by 19.
Nights are usually good.
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #11 on: February 14, 2012, 21:03:59 pm »
(((hugs)))

Looking at his EASY, I still think this looks like an OT nap hun.  He's doing 5h 40 A time on both sides of his nap, & after a 1hr 10min nap, 5h 40mins A to BT will certainly be too long.

I still think I would be inclined to shorten the first A time more, & see if his nap lengthens.  Give it a good week for him to adjust.  I'd do 5.5hrs at the absolute max, but probably nearer to 5hrs.  Like creations says you want to find the A time that will give you a good 2hr nap, or at the very least, 1.5hrs, which will enable him to last through his A time to BT. 

Have you tried a 6pm BT i.e. asleep by 6pm?  While his nap continues to be short like that I'd be inclined to do bedtime as early as you dare (even 5.30pm), in the hopes he will tack on at night time.  Though TBH if you aren't having any NW's at all I'd say that is a good sign.

Ima this may sound a silly question but can I ask what your 2 nap EASY looked like before you dropped to 1 nap? I can't quite figure how he could have been doing such a big A time (5.5hrs) on a 2 nap day?  It just might help me to understand where you've come from, so I can better help you with where you're going to, IYSWIM?


xx

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #12 on: February 15, 2012, 07:54:49 am »
I don't have much experience in this area at all, but with what happened with DS I totally agree with Clairebear, the only thing I saw with DS is that it took longer than a week for his nap to extend (I started to think it never would).  Most likely he continued to be OT for a while before adjusting to the one nap and it extending to 2hrs (I still have to resettle at an hour sometimes and only get 1.5hr sometimes but it is a combination of still adjusting to dropping to one nap, plus teething, plus a cold).


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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #13 on: February 15, 2012, 13:34:04 pm »
Hiya, not to confuse things but if he's always been high on A times/low sleep needs then it could be that a shortish nap is all he needs. Is he in good form? We started getting short naps at that age too and I tried lots of tweaking but any time I got a longer nap we ended up with EW so the short nap was all DD really needed. She's always been high on A times like your DS and went to 1 nap at 9/10 months.

At 12months her EASY looked like:

7am awake
1-2.20pm (ish) nap
7pm bed

This lasted until 14months when she dropped to 45mins nap ::) And she has just dropped her nap at age 19months. Now I think she's an extreme example so I'm not saying your DS will necessarily be the same!

I think what I'm trying to say is I totally agree with the girls that the long A times may make him OT, anything more than a 5.5-6hrs A time tends to make the day too long so having been through something similar I would stick to 5.5-6hrs MAX and see if his nap extends, if not then maybe it's all he needs.

x
« Last Edit: February 15, 2012, 13:35:56 pm by KDee »
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Offline Ima shel Alon

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Re: I have a new toddler :) and we are having problems
« Reply #14 on: February 15, 2012, 18:15:42 pm »
KDee, thanks. I hope Alon is not like that, LOL, I want some Y time in my day, selfish mommy :D
Claire, I am afraid of a 6PM BT (in bed by 18), but I will try to gather my courage (and DH's) to try that for a few days.
Sorry, I think I was not clear about my times. When he was still having 2 naps his A time was 4:55h. His day looked like this:

6:15 WU
11:10 S for 1.5h
17 CN for 1/2h
18:30 BT, in bed by 19

That's my last record of two naps from 13.12 and a day after he started refusing his CN, so we started increasing. He then started napping 45min and we increased it to up to 5:20 during the time till the 3rd of January. On the 3rd we were in 5:20 and got a few days of good naps (2-2.5h). On the 15th of January I wrote that his nap has shortened to 1.15h.
Ok, I agree that I should go down with the A time, but do I go down to an A time that gave me 45min, do I go back to 5:20A time?
Could I say that 45min nap would still be UT, or it's also OT now?
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