2nd nap not working

[stephnoah]

Hi,
My second nap has gotten terrible.  No matter the A time, he wakes at 25-30 minutes.  I know this means OT, but I just don't know how he's OT.  He's 6,5 months, and waking at 25-30 mins after 230 of pretty mellow A time.

This is our easy
wu 7 bottle
8 solids
930 sleep until 1130
2 sleep for 25 to 30 mins.

Sometimes I can get him to push through with a lot of sh patting.. but not often. 

If I can't get him to push through I put him back down for a nap half an hour later and he'll sleep.


What could be causing this?  Should I bring my A time wayy down just to see?? Should I do w2s? 


Thanks

[Ima shel Alon]

I would try W2S, even just for the sake of giving it a try, but you would need to do for a few days to see if it works.
And yes, you could try and bring your A time down, but not by much, try 10 minutes.
The other thing is that it's true for many babies 25-30min are OT, but for some it's UT. Did he do this A time before and he was napped well with it? Did it just start all of a sudden? How is he waking up, crying or playful? Does he still seem very tired to you when he wakes up?
Any signs for teething? Some babies need less A time when they are teething.

[stephnoah]

Hi,
So in the past couple of days, this is what we have been doing'

7 wu
950 ish Sleep (1,5 - 2 hours),
wake for 3,5 (happy the whole time)
sleep for 25 (wakes up happy, smiling, playing in crib),
Bed 2,5 hours later.


Why is he waking at 25 minutes so happy after such a long A?

[Ima shel Alon]

Have you tried W2S? Have you tried reducing A time a little bit?
Did he do this A time before and it worked well? Did it start all of a sudden?

[stephnoah]

hi!
I've done w2S for the past 2 days, and he wakes up 20 minutes after I do it.. 

I could try reducing the A, I'll try anything at this point!

He did 3 hours this morning and slept 1,5

[stephnoah]

yesterday and today i was able to get him back to sleep.. so I'm thinking he's waking OT for the past 2 days.  I'm going to try 315 tomorrow. 

[Ima shel Alon]

I think if 3h gave you 1.5h nap you should stick with it.

[stephnoah]

I'm still struggling with this afternoon nap...  I'm not quite sure what to do anymore.
Today, our easy looked like this:

650 - wu
7 - bottle
820 - solids
945 - S
1215 wu and bottle
130 - solids
325 - s
355 - wu
(i was walking with him in the stroller, so I was not able to try to get him back down)

.. the day is not done yet.


Its been 3 weeks since we've had an afternoon nap that is not disturbed by a wu.  Sometimes he wakes at 25 minutes, sometimes 30 ,35.  I try w2s at the 15 minute mark, he wakes at 35.  He never wakes crying... but I can't imagine that he is UT after a 3+ hour A.  I've kept him up up to 330.. still wakes up.  The only thing I didn't try is putting him down before 3 hours..  Although after such a good nap I thought that he could endure 3+.

I have been letting him sleep until he wakes for the 1st nap because his afternoon one is so bad.  Luckily his second nap (if i don't get him back to sleep) ends around 4, so I can do an ebt and we're ok.  If I get him back down, he sleeps until 5.


any thoughts??

[stephnoah]

Today he woke from his nap at 355, I put him to bed at 615 and he didn't fall asleep until 705.   I'm not sure if he's being put to bed too soon.. or too late after a 30 minute nap?

[Ima shel Alon]

I do think that your AM nap is long, but that's my opinion. He is now around 7 months? I only let 2h sleep for a nap, because I was aiming for two full naps a day.
If you didn't try reducing the second A time then I suggest that's what you do, just to give it a try and see what happens.
25-30-35min are usually OT, but for some babies it's UT and we won't know unless you try reducing the second A time.
It's only a guess because I need to see more EASY from several days to say (almost ) for sure, but it could be that the long nap is what's causing him not to fall asleep at BT. But then again, it could be OT or UT.

[stephnoah]

Today I will try cutting the morning nap - tops 2 hours to see what happens.  Its so hard to tell because he never wakes up crying when he wakes from an early nap.. and if I take him out of bed he's quite content.  I do find though that when he naps for so long, he's a bit grumpy in the afternoon.. is that normal? or weird?

So my plan: shorten his AM nap, and try to extend the pm nap. 

Taking so long to fall asleep at bedtime has resulted in some nws, and ews...  :S


I will update tomorrow as to how our day went today.
Thanks!

[stephnoah]

Ok, so this is our easy today:

wu at 4 - back asleep until 720 - bottle
8:30 solids
10:20 S  (I usually change his diaper before nap, but today we were rushed so I didn't.. serves me right, he peed through it and woke up at 1125)
12:00 bottle
1:00 solids
2:25 Nap - I did wake to sleep because he's been waking at 25, 30 or 35 for the past 3 weeks.  Everytime I've done w2s he wakes 20 minutes after I do it.  SO, he woke up at 305


I shh patted him for 40 minutes which was done with him crying the whole time.. anytime he would look like he was falling back asleep, his head would pop up after 2 minutes.  Finally I took him out of bed, and he was the happiest ever.. not tired looking at all.

I went into town after hoping he would maybe doze off in the car... nope, not at all!

So I put him to bed at 6, and he fell asleep at 620.

All day, he had 1,5 hours of sleep :S   Luckily he got to bed early.. hopefully that helps with the nws.


Any advice?  Is it possible that after his 1 hour nap he could have done a longer A time than 3 hours??? 

[stephnoah]

I forgot to mention that I watched him for his whole nap, and at no point did he seem to be in a deep sleep..  would that be due to him being OT or UT?

[Ima shel Alon]

I forgot to mention that I watched him for his whole nap, and at no point did he seem to be in a deep sleep..  would that be due to him being OT or UT?

I am no expert, but I would think it can be both.

It's hard for me to advice because you didn't get the first nap right (it's always trickier like that). Let me know how tomorrow goes with shortening that second A time.