Could just use some support... I think our nursing days are numbered.

[teilvnav]

Ahhh... this sucks beans. Why is it so hard to feed this girl?? She is so impatient for my letdown; she pulls off and fusses and almost seems to be scolding me when it isn't right there for her. The last few days have been full of tears from us both; she is ok nursing during the day but come BT, she is DONE. She just outright flips out and refuses to nurse, wanting a bottle instead. I have been trying for 10-20 min for the BT nurse, the DF, and the NF to get her to nurse... no joy. She freaks out, completely beside herself screaming (she is spirited, which isn't helping at all). I know she is hungry; besides the timing of the feeds, I know because she is turning her body into mine and nuzzling me, and giving her little cough/moan that tells me she is hungry. But come nightfall, she just will NOT nurse.

Her bad cold from last month lasted a long time with a stuffy nose and an ear infection which required abx so I know it was painful/difficult to suckle. She cut her first two teeth at the same time. She did get a few bottles for top-offs during that time but we didn't replace any feedings with bottles. And now she is just so upset when I even lift up my shirt at BT; alligator tears, crying until she pukes, the whole lot. It is kind of awful and I don't know what to do. I wouldn't be quite as upset if I could pump, because then at least she would still be getting BM. But it hurts and I only ever get 1-2 oz (trust me, I have tried and tried) so it has to be formula. I am just so upset about this.

[Mrs. A]

((((hugs)))) Amy.   

[TiffanyT]

Aw Amy sorry. What about just doing formula for the DF? You said she's ok nursing in the day time? That seems like a good compromise if she just won't have it at night.

[teilvnav]

It's not just the DF, it is all three of those feeds. I can't get her to nurse at BT (even though it has been 3-4 hrs since her last nurse), her DF, or during the night when she wakes hungry. If it was just one it wouldn't be a huge deal (although still not cool). She will literally cry until she starts coughing, with giant tears falling from her eyes. I feel like I am torturing her as I squirt milk into her mouth, try different positions, sing to her, and basically beg her to nurse. She just won't.

Any idea how long my supply can keep up if I am only nursing three times during the day?

[TiffanyT]

Oh..sorry, obviously I misunderstood your previous post about when she was having a hard time nursing. FWIW I think the advice (if you've heard it) to pre-pump to get your supply going is probably effective but not realistic (especially since you have a hard time pumping, I don't, and still I'd quit nursing if I had to do that. It's hard enough as it is). 

I don't know but I would think that if your body adjusts to how much a baby needs nursing all day and night, couldn't it adjust to the daytime feeds? If you think about it, there are lots of LOs who STTN at 6 weeks, and their mom's supply doesn't dry up, right?

Either way, I say do what you can.

[katie80]

Oh Amy   I'm so sorry, hon. I wish I had the right words to say (or any helpful advice for that matter). These are things that came to mind, I don't know if they're helpful at all since it's a nighttime issue and they're kind of about timing. Have you tried offering the breast just a bit sooner than when she's really hungry? What about lots of skin-to-skin time?  Can you manually express a bit before each feed to get to the let-down quicker? 

Lots of warm ((((hugs)))), love. 

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

((((((((((hugs))))))))) Amy! That sounds incredibly frustrating I wish I had some advice for you. You have done such a fantastic job!

[teilvnav]

It's funny; I have said that Nathan was hard to nurse because he was a biter and even when he wasn't actively biting me he was lazy about his latch so his teeth grazed my nipple every time he nursed. That feels like a shock of lightening even when it doesn't hurt. But I still got to 8 months with him so it feels like a real defeat to end earlier with Anna, who isn't biting! I would trade some of her nonsense for a bit of biting, actually. Arg.

Ok. So last night she refused her BT feeding and ended up taking 7oz of formula. She woke at 9:45 hungry again, so I stripped us both down and tried  skin to skin as I rubbed her head and stroked her back, which she loves. It took a while but she did suckle enough to get the let down started. Once we get to that stage she is fine, so she did take a full feed from me. It probably helped that I was engorged since I hadn't fed her since about 3pm, so the let down didn't take long to come. For her NF I pulled her into bed with me and thought happy thoughts while I cuddled her for a minute, and then fed her lying down. Again, it took some encouragement but she did feed. And then this morning was no problem; her breakfast has become our best feed of the day since she only pops off happily to look around, rather than to cry.

I don't know. It is just hard to feed her. I am going to keep plugging away for as long as I can, though. Thanks for the hugs, it really helps to know that I can come and complain! DH is very pro-BFing so is supportive but has little advice of course.

[Roseii]

((hugs)) Amy. Does she wake for her DF or do you try and feed her asleep? Perhaps you could try a little bit of expressing (hand or otherwise) to get the flow going, as you say she's much happier with a quicker letdown..

[TiffanyT]

Hand-expressing...hm never thought of that. I have never done it.

Sounds like a good night for the feeding, but still a mini-struggle. I don't think BF is easy at all, it's a commitment and a challenge. You've got the right attitude though.

[atlantamomofthree]

((hugs)) Amy 

[lidiayy]

Hi Amy,

I hope I can express my thoughts without messing up due to language questions.
First of all, big hugs to you. I can imagine how you feel as I've been through a nurse strike with DD1 when she was around Anna's age and it was not fun at all.

For her NF I pulled her into bed with me and thought happy thoughts while I cuddled her for a minute

This is the key! Try to keep your mind with happy thoughts.
Don't push too hard on yourself, I know you know this but all this stress makes the letdown even harder, we get anxious, the baby feels our tension and the letdown never comes. So I know it is easier said than done, but try to keep your mind at ease.

I would think that if your body adjusts to how much a baby needs nursing all day and night, couldn't it adjust to the daytime feeds? If you think about it, there are lots of LOs who STTN at 6 weeks, and their mom's supply doesn't dry up, right?

I totally agree with this. I think if you make it nursing during the day, then your body will just adjust to how much she nurses. And during the night, while bottle feeding her if this is what you end up doing, don't think that you should be feeding her instead. Think that this is the way you both are calmer and happy together.

Whenever you get yourself confident again (because I know we lose confidence in ourselves, making things harder) you can little by little try to offer the boob at BT, for example, so that your body "understands" that there's a new demand for that time of the day.

My last thought: I don't know if you would be able to do it, as I know you have to do BT by yourself as your DH is working, but instead of trying to express, have you tried only massaging your nipple, rolling them? This article from kellymom was what helped me when I was struggling with DD1.

http://www.kellymom.com/bf/supply/letdown.html

I HTH and will keep my fingers crossed that Anna helps you go through this. You can do it!  

[Jenn+Ethan+Emily]

More ((((hugs)))) Amy!!!

[Fiver]

Lots of *hugs* Amy.   Some of this won't be applicable http://www.kellymom.com/bf/concerns/baby/back-to-breast.html#coax but some of it might help (you'll need to pick and choose as it's a mix of newborn and older baby techniques).  You've done so well so far

[teilvnav]

Thanks Amanda, that's what I read last night. Today I used lots of eye contact, smiling, singing, and head rubbing while she was trying to get the letdown going. A few times were sketchy, but she did pull through each feed except for that BT one again. Total meltdown again so I just did a bottle. She nursed 5 times today and the last time was at 5:00pm, so I was ok with it.

One thing I am struggling a bit with still is getting the letdown to start by hand. I end up squirting milk everywhere as I squeeze but nothing else seems to happen. Tonight I did as Lidia suggested and just kinda played with them, but still no joy. I definitely feel the letdown each time even at this age; it is a stinging sensation. Any tips there? That might be the key to getting her on the BB before bed.

One thing I am trying very hard to avoid is getting upset or frustrated when she is refusing me... I can feel my body tense up after a while and I am 100% positive that it doesn't help my milk to flow!

Charli, she often needs resettling a few times before the DF, so it is common for her to be awake for it and for me to feed her any time after 9:30/9:45 just because she has woken up anyway. If I can figure out how to express successfully by hand first, then I can certainly try getting the letdown started before feeding the DF if she is still asleep by then.