Could just use some support... I think our nursing days are numbered.

[Erin M]

What about warm compresses prior to nursing?  ((hugs))

[katie80]

More (((hugs))), Amy.  You're doing such a great job, my dear.  I'm so impressed by all the steps you're taking to keep this going.  You might have to print this thread out and save it for one day when Anna comes to you as a new mom struggling with BFing.  No doubt she'll be all the more thankful for a wonderful mom like you!

[lidiayy]

Oh Amy... I am sorry you're having such a hard time!
Let me share my experience:I am currently pumping twice a day, I have medela in style advanced,, which is a double pump which mimics the baby suckling, I mean faster at the beggining to get the letdown and then more paused when the milk comes (sorry if you already knew this).
I could never get the letdown only with the pump stimuli, so I massage one nipple while pumping the other side. It used to take only few minutes playing with my nipple to get the letdown (while pumping for dd1), but now I am struggling with it. And I know that it's just because I get anxious for the milk to come. I am busy thinking that I need to finish pumping to have dd1 ready to go to daycare, then I have to put dd2, then I have lots of house chores and bla bla.... It takes some time, but it does come.
What I wanted you to know is that even without any real problem (which is my case) getting a letdown is hard, so don't beat up on yourself and keep calm as you're doing. Keep positive thinkings because you can do it. One feed at a time, little by little.
We're here to support you.
HTH.  

[my3girlsjde]

More hugs

[teilvnav]

You might have to print this thread out and save it for one day when Anna comes to you as a new mom struggling with BFing.

That's a good idea! Little bum had better appreciate this later!!!

Thanks for your experience Lidia. I have heard the medela is good but if I spend any more $$ on a pump my DH might shoot me. I have bought a Lansaloh manual, and then an Avent electric and manual. I also bought bigger flanges to try in case my nipples were the problem... no luck. The Lansaloh worked the best, but only because it didn't hurt like the Avent. I still only got a bit of milk even after 10-15 min. I am a DDD, and I think that they are just too big for pumps. I would totally find the time to pump during the day for her night time feeds if it would work!

After her BT feed turned out to be a bottle again tonight, she woke many times (every 30-45 min) until about 9:45. I only gave her 4 oz at BT and I guess that wasn't enough even though she was falling asleep on the bottle. She wouldn't resettle at 9:45 so I knew she was hungry, and took a few minutes even though she was crying to try to get the milk flowing. I had it going; we were good! But she freaked out as soon as I lifted my shirt and just would.not.nurse. She gave a few little sucks at first and then got increasingly upset until she was once again screaming her face off. I made a bottle after about 10 min and she took 5 oz. AAARRRGGG. So I guess that the pattern we are falling into is that she will nurse during the day (which she did very well today! She even nursed in the front seat of my sister's car in the Old Navy parking lot!) and get bottles at night. Craptastic. I am going to keep trying to nurse at night; DH is confident that this is another phase and she will suddenly come back to my BB. We'll see.

One funny thing tonight: I gave her the bottle at her BT but because Nathan had napped today he was going to go to bed after she did. He was very confused that she was getting a bottle instead of being nursed. He asked me why she was crying for milk when I had my BBs out right there for her, and had I put BB milk into the bottle for her to drink? He was baffled. It was just cute how he sees BFing as the way you feed a baby. I hope he remembers that.

[TiffanyT]

Amy, I also have the Medela Pump In Style Advanced and I totally agree with Lidia. When I first bought it I was amazed at how much milk I could get, but now that life is busier and I have less patience with pumping, it's SO much harder! I never could have imagined how much state of mind affects let down, etc.

So I guess that the pattern we are falling into is that she will nurse during the day (which she did very well today! She even nursed in the front seat of my sister's car in the Old Navy parking lot!) and get bottles at night. Craptastic.

I say look at this as success, not "craptastic", if you are able to nurse her all day long then all of your efforts are worth it! You were thinking that your nursing days were numbered, so this is a big success! And I agree with your DH - it's probably a phase that she will pass thru. But if it's not, that's ok too.

It was just cute how he sees BFing as the way you feed a baby.  I hope he remembers that.

Adorable (he sounds like the sweetest little boy) and I know that he will remember this. You're raising a great young man someday

[lidiayy]

Oh Amy, I didn't mean to tell you to buy another pump, I just wanted to say that pumping is hard and getting the letdown is even harder when you are worried about anything. I am sure, from what you've already said that you would do whatever it takes to keep her on your BM. But please, don't hurt yourself, I am sure Anna wouldn't want her dear mom to be hurt. 

I agree with Tiffany and your DH, that it's just a phase she has to overcome and I'll keep my fingers crossed that this ends up soon!

You are such a great mom to your kids. I'm sure Nathan and Anna will be very proud of all the effort you've been putting to raise them. They're lucky to have you as their mom. 

[teilvnav]

Thanks Tiffany.   And you`re right, I should look on the bright side and appreciate it every time she does nurse. I tend to be a pessimist.  

She did nurse for her NF last night at 4am, which is good because I hadn`t nursed her since 5pm and I was pretty full. She is still sleeping this morning after her 2 hr NW after the nurse, so hopefully she will take a breakfast nurse when she gets up (or when I get her up).

Don`t worry Lidia, I knew what you meant! Your English is very good; I always know what you mean (or have so far, anyway).  And thanks.

[binxyboo]

Love your avatar photo. Your little girl always seems so bright and happy to me...like she is always two steps ahead of everything and loves to keep you on your toes lol. Have you tried starting her off on the bottle for those feeds in the evening...say, start with giving her 2 ounces or so, laying down turned into a breastfeeding position. Maybe after her initial hunger is dealt with, she might be more patient to try to latch on. Might be worth a shot.

And remember, breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. Things change so much with our children, as you know. Before too long, with more solids coming into play, being able to stay up longer etc, those evening feeds will start to consolidate and disappear anyway. I think you are doing an awesome job anyway xx

[teilvnav]

Your little girl always seems so bright and happy to me...like she is always two steps ahead of everything and loves to keep you on your toes lol.

This is so, so true! She is just this little bundle of curiosity and energy... once she is more mobile I fear I will never sit down again! LOL! That photo was taken last week when she swiped a sweet potato fry right off my plate and ate it... "hello Mum, I am ready to start solids now. Get with it!" She wanted another soooo badly... little monkey.

I did try just giving her a bit off bottle last night to hedge off her hunger, but no joy. She just cried again until I gave her more. Someone suggested warm compresses; I am going to try that tonight.

And remember, breastfeeding doesn't have to be all or nothing. Things change so much with our children, as you know. Before too long, with more solids coming into play, being able to stay up longer etc, those evening feeds will start to consolidate and disappear anyway. I think you are doing an awesome job anyway xx

Thank you for that! It is hard to keep in mind that time flies and soon this will be a distant memory as I chase her down the block.

[Fiver]

Aww, how sweet of Nathan.

Something I did (because I read about it on Kellymom) was to "train" my body to letdown by giving myself a physical trigger.  Ok, I haven't explained that well.  Here's my example.  I trained my letdown to be activated by doing Kegels (one way to remember, huh?!  But this physical stimulus could be anything - clenching a fist, squeezing a finger etc)  So to start with, when I got a letdown I would do a pelvic floor lift.  I did this a few times so that I could get used to it and then after a few times, when I did this, it triggered a letdown, rather than the other way round.  I truly hope that makes some sense!!

[teilvnav]

Oh yeah, it makes total sense! I read that article last night I think... the analogy they used was Pavlov's dog. Worth a shot!

[Fiver]

It worked great for a time and then I forgot to keep doing it because letdown was so fast.  Still do it from time to time now and it still works   Anything's worth a go, huh?

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Many hugs, Amy.  You're doing such a good job!! 

One thing I am trying very hard to avoid is getting upset or frustrated when she is refusing me... I can feel my body tense up after a while and I am 100% positive that it doesn't help my milk to flow!

It's so hard but this is really important.  Definitely try to focus on the warm feelings to get that milk going. 

You can do it!

[~Sara~]

*hugs* Amy...I think you're a wonderful mom   You should be proud of yourself for sticking with bfing!

As you know, I am pumping at work, and I will say that having a higher-end pump helps a lot.  I also have a Medela Pump in Style Advanced ($300 pump, only paid half of that since I bought it off of ebay) that I've been using since going back to work vs. a Lansinoh pump I got when A was born (still retails for about $120).  While I can still get milk using the Lansinoh pump, the Medela is much more efficient.  Do hospitals in your area rent out their pumps, by any chance?  That way you could see if your body responds better to the hospital grade ones.

I was also going to suggest buying larger shields to see if that would be more comfortable...sounds like you've already tried that.

As for encouraging your letdown, I completely agree that a huge part of it is mental.  Often, I find myself having to relax my posture, take deeper breaths (I hold my breath when I'm tense), and visualize the milk flowing out of me like a stream...sounds silly, but it works.  I get a letdown within 15-20 seconds of doing that.

Another tip for encouraging letdown is to lean over and slightly jiggle the girls.  I find myself having letdowns even when I'm not feeding or pumping if I'm leaning over a lot during the day

Might I add that I think Anna sounds OT/OS at the end of the day and that while she wants to comfort herself by nursing or that she truly is hungry, it's just too much for her to eat.  M will get like that if she's too OT/OS (more so with OS) at bedtime.  She is so unsettled while eating and will cry and chomp down on me like she's full, but really she's screaming at me, "Just put me to bed, Mommy--NOW!"  I'll then actually bring the DF forward and hope for the best for the rest of the night.

Again, lots of *hugs*.  I know the whole ebf/ff thing can be a very sensitive issue, especially when us Mommies want to do right by our babies.  However you decide to do things, we've got your back