Growth Spurt or bad habit!? Short A time or Hunger!? Help!

[lil_ginge]

Hello Mamas.

I don't know if this is a breastfeeding friendly post or an EASY one - so I'll post here n move me if I'm in the wrong place!

Was on here a couple of weeks ago getting help as my 19 wk DD seemed to naturally be pushing back her feeds to a combination of 3.5/4 hours and she had started taking lovely long 2 hour naps by herself so I was thrilled and wanted advice about the eve's and changes. Her A times = 1.5

Well you know how it goes - when you're doing a ''Wooooooo we're rocking this!'' dance things suddenly take a turn.

Last week DH went away for the week and I think we hit a 4 month growth spurt. I was really struggling as I thought my milk supply (which has always been good before) was lacking. She would down two breasts and still seem to be wanting to find if there was anything else up for grabs. On his return - he could not believe the change. She has visibly grown ... ALOT. During this time - I fed her more like every 3 hours, gave both breasts and still tried to follow an EASY pattern.

8 days on and the last few days we're getting shorter naps. Yesterday's were 1 hr or 50 mins. Usually she cries in the middle of a nap but gets herself back off for another 30 or 1 hr! But not so now... When I try PU/PD she sometimes tries to eat my chin. This is usually a sign she's hungry but sometimes she can do this when she is tired so after trying for 30/40 mins the feeling of ''but what if she's just hungry and you're trying to make her sleep'' comes in so I feed her.

I'm just confused! She is content after a feed then - but she's a bit tired too as she's had a short nap and her normal day continues in this 1 hr nap - cry - eat - mini activity time pattern!

- In TBWSAYP, it says during the 4 month growth spurt you need to extend A times and yet at the same time up the feeds during the day. But I am confused when she's feeding every 2/2.5 hours (the last two days) and she's not getting good naps how to do this! It makes any attempt at extending an E.A.S.Y quite difficult!

- I read in BW these growth spurts are usually only 2/3 days and to watch out for dodgy patterns forming once it's over... this seems to be going on after 8 days - do you think for a ex BF baby that is ok or actually, we're out of a growth spurt and into some AP? I'm stumped as to whether her short naps are because I need to help extend her A time or whether she's on a mammoth eatathon for the time being!

- She was a big baby at birth - 9 lbs 3... I have been wondering (especially as she's got so big this week) whether this is a problem because she's after something more substantial than just my milk now.

Would love your thoughts -
Sorry for babbling. I am a bit deflated because I don't want her to be hungry yet I don't wanna enforce some AP and undo all the great progress with made with EASY!

Thanks ladies. x x x

[lil_ginge]

* The thing that pulls my heart strings atm is - with 2&1/2 hr feeds she doesn't even get as good a glug down as milk hasn't been able to boost up so it's a vicious circle.

[amayzie]

Ah- the growth spurts!! The 4 month was ok for us- but the 6 month was a real kicker!! Hopefully you'll have a quiet 6 month-

The issues could be either the EASY not being right, or some patterns she's set up over the growth sput, or a bit of both! How about you post your easy so we can have a look at where she's up to now and where things need a tweak!

And you are sooo entitled to a happy dance- you just have to make the dances quick as these little ones change so much in the first 6 months that any gains are relatively short lived!! And as they get closer to the 6 month mark you are less like 'OMG- WHAT IS GOING ON!?!' and more like 'Ok... i need to adjust some things here'... if only it was always clear what needed adjusting!!

[lil_ginge]

OK so... on good day in that glimmering victory week we had EASY like this:

E. 7.20
A.
S. 8.45 - 11 approx
E. 11.20
A.
S. 12.40 - 2.20
E. 3.20
A.
S. 4.15-5.15 CN
A. seemed to want grub
E. 6.00 after fussy A time
A.
S. Fell asleep for 15 mins... couldn't keep going after being awake a while..
E. TU 7.15 - bed
STTN
The A time looked a bit more most times - next day still good naps but A time more like normal 1 hr 30.

It's sometimes difficult to tell when she is awake as she can be an angel in the mornings and so could be awake so blissfully that when we get her up for her first E some A time seems to have gone and we dunno how much! *eek*
In general she pushes for shorter A's in the morning..

Ok so here's where we were yesterday which was the first really dodgy nap day since growth spurt started last wednesday!

 Heard her chat a bit to herself some times between 5am-6am - we left as she usually goes off but unsure as to how much she did!

E. 6.45 am
A.
S. 8 - 9 ... tried for 45 mins to get her to sleep. Fed her as thought she was hungry!
E. 9.45  - downed both breasts
A
S. 10.15 - 1 hr nap again
E. 11.45 - downed both breasts again
A.
S. 12.45 - 1 hr again...
E. 2.30
A.
S. 3.15 - fell asleep 3.25 - 4.00. Tried PU/PD and she eventually fell asleep (seemed tired after crazy day!) at about 4.45 for about an hour
E. 6.15 approx
A & BT - 6.50 ish ... STTN

This morning so far
E - 6.30 am (when we heard tried not to leave her incae we lost lot of A time this way)
A.
S - 8.00-8.05 ish - 9 (1 hr nap!)
E. 9.30 - after eating my chin during PU/PD! Drank up both breasts again then was content (AHhhhh)
A.
S. 10.30 - stirring at mo ... hour and 5 later.. bang on..

[lil_ginge]

P.S. - I get you... quick dance, enjoy - embrace the new changes... and do all over again.

Thx for helping!

[amayzie]

Ok- I think that you might need to push that A time again as:
1) you are having trouble getting her down for naps
2) she is only sleeping for an hour and
3) the early morning happy wakings- or 'cot parties' as i like to call them

At 4 months you usually look at a 2 hour A time- that;s how you get your 4 hour easy- the theory is 2 hours up, and 2 hours sleep- 4 hours. Even if she only sleeps for 1.5 hours that's still a 3.5 hour easy- which is fine.
 
The fact that she's having nice big feeds tells me that she needs it- and yesterday she still only had 5 feeds- which is not too bad as she's now STTN (Do a big happy dance for that one!!). Often EBF babies find the move to 4 hour easy hard as they take longer to stretch the full 4 hours.

SOOO- My suggestion- push up the A times again by about 10-15 minutes. Are you familiar with this process? It seemed you've done it before... Your aim is to get close to 4 hours, but don't get greedy and do it all at once (I did this once.. bad... ). If she does a 30 or 35 minute nap then DON"T PANIC- you've pushed her too far and she needs less A time. Just adjust it for the next day and you;ll be fine.

It can be hard to work out the A times when they are up in the morning, my guy often did/does that-n I know thatif he REALLY needs me he'll cry and i;ll wake up.. so i don't panic. You just need to see what works. I found with my guy i had to just ignore worrying about how long he as up before i knew and go for the A time i felt he needed. But all babies are different!

Also- if she wakes up from the nap at 40-45 mins happy then in that case with my guy i could never get him to resettle. Try for sure- but if after a fe days it doesn't work- cut your losses, get her up and start a new A time- it makes a short nap much less stressful when you know you don't have a screaming match at the end!

Make sense? Please let me know if you need more info!

[lil_ginge]

Oops - forgot to add a DF at 10.30... 6 feeds. PTL, she resettled and is still asleep from her second nap so that's great.

You're right my Australian friend. I think you're right. That's really helpful.

Did you adjust just one A time only once a day? Like - just the morning? Or did you try EVERY A time for that day (and then keep doing same thing for 3 days before change?)

[amayzie]

lol- you are funny- are you a writer? You should at least have a blog! (In all your spare time)

Ah- good the dream feed is great- keep it! Hmm.. now if i was being cautious and giving advice i;d say to do one A time at a time... but i never did- i usually did all at once. BUT You know your LO best. SO- if i was to stretch the morning A time and get a good nap, (at least 1.5 hours) i'd then go right on and stretch the next A time. BUT- if the first nap was crap for some reason- OT or UT, then probably either keep the A time the same, OR cut it back a little to prevent her from being over tired for the rest of the day.

It's trial and error a bit!!

I would focus on the A times and the feeds should take care of themselves. You only have the one 2 hour between feed time, the others are 3 hours which are a fine starting point- again your LO may need to go to 3.5 hours before 4.  

[Erin M]

3.5 hours is a good midway point on the way to a 4 hour EASY.  Some babies can make the jump, some can't.  For some EBF babies, 4 months is too soon for a 4 hour EASY, I wonder if that's where you're having trouble.  I know some ladies have had luck during growth spurts doing a "triple sided" feed -- so offer one breast until she's good, offer the second one, and then offer the first again.  While there won't be a ton in there, she will probably get something and it will also serve to boost your supply which can only help in the long run as well. 

Personally, I think you can keep that happy dance b/c she's STTN!  Woohoo!  My dd1 did that from early on, it was wonderful. 

[lil_ginge]

Amayzie - Thanks for the wisdom. I can relate to your eager ways with the ''this is workingggg so let's go for the whole lot!'' shenanigans. I will try and pace it but DD is really good at picking things up well and seems to be able to take a lil extra gentle pushing so I may be following you in that one... I just want to make sure I don't go into complete meltdown. Do you have any links to advice on pushing A time back? I did this way back at 9 weeks when I started out on EASY but it seems like a decade ago now. LO's change so quickly!!! Writer - ha... um, you got me *sigh*. Ya, a bit. It was my degree... No blog though. Facebook is about as technologically savvy as I get these days! I'm a granny caught up in a twenty something body.

Erin - That sounds really helpful. I wondered if 4 hour already would be pushing it and because *victory dance* she STTN, I don't wanna push her so hard that we're back to NF's! Great to hear your DD did also! You feel 'human' again don't you?! Triple feeding - thank you I will keep on with this then. I try to give it a go - but she is quite the wriggler when there is not the fountain she is after

Myboyblue - I am quite new on here and my DD is only 4.5 months so I look on at your EASY with serious kudos at the ssh/pats and you and your LO seem to be doing really well. I wonder if posting your EASY in the 'naps' forum under a new topic would get the nap moderators thinking for you. I posted in there the other day and they were brill with advising me on almost the same qu! (I wanted to lengthen one nap in the afternoon because we can't get a good 2 hr one in the morn due to being out!)

[amayzie]

THey do change fast! Here;s a link

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0

and this one talks all about A times and how they relate to naps

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64158.0

I also moved myboyblue's post out into her own thread as it's easier for peopl e to give assistance in a separate thread. I also copied your comment to her so that she'll get it on the new thread.

Ah- a writing degree- sprung!

[lil_ginge]

Great, thanks alot! Will check those now and with God's help - hopefully get through tomorrow with a start of pushing back those A's.

[lil_ginge]

O sorry Amayzie but the second link is the same as the first one! :S

[amayzie]

You clearly needed to really know that information!!

Is this better?

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

[lil_ginge]

Yep, I now have my A time table down! Ha ha.. Thanks - that's another helpful link.