Please, help me! 10m old wakes every 1-2 hours since 5.5m old

[okcana86]

Hello Ladies!

I really hope someone can guide me as to what I am doing wrong.

I have been reading this forum for weeks, bought the book but still very lost as to what is going on with my LO. I am sooo overtired and grumpy and have 5 year old daughter to look after as well.

This LO from about 3 months was sleeping 8pm-4am then eating and back to sleep until 7 or 8am.

She set her schedule herself from early on (with my eldest daughter I never had a schedule and was fine)
This LO would fall asleep at 8pm with short mantra cry then eat every 2 hours gradually eliminating feed by feed until she was sleeping 8-4 and NEVER woke up. (she would also nap very easily after every 2 hours awake) fell asleep on her own with dummy (spat dummy out when she was drifting off)

At about 5.5 months she started waking several times for dummy (just had to replug it). Then sleep problem became worse. She would wake every 1-2 hours screaming and not very easy to resettle ( but never wide awake).

Now she doesnt use dummy as a prop (spits out as she falls asleep and doesnt need it to resettle unless very distressed)
I tried extending her naps to about 4 hrs a day (she started waking up at night ready to play)
Tried giving her only 1 nap of 1.5 hr - she was OT that night but slept whole 4 hours following night (first time ever)

I am just so confused what is causing her night time wakings for sooo long? 5 months no proper sleep!

Her day is roughly like this:

8am wake up (has been 7 or 7:30 for the past couple of weeks, after I started tweaking her routine)

naps at 10 am for about 1hr (sometimes 45 mins sometimes 1.5 hours)

then nap after 2 hrs awake time (nap of anything from 45mins to 2 hrs, it depends)

then bedtime at 8pm

What I tried is: putting her to bed falling asleep with bottle (usually she fell asleep on breast and was very happy, but I have almost stopped BF now)

putting her to bed falling alseep just with dummy

falling asleep after drinking 6 oz milk (she cant take more) but with mantra talk

God, I am trying to list everything I can think of I think I should stop.

The problem is that nothing gave major improvement and she should be able to sleep for 8 hours as she has done so before, right?

Please, leadies, you are so experienced, what am I doing wrong? Why she stopped sleeping from 5.5 months?

I would greatly appriciate any help even just a talk

[okcana86]

Oh, forgot, she sleeps with me for the past month once she started standing up in her cot and crawling. (so its not separation anxiety)

She has two teeth that only came through one at Xmas and one 13th Jan. No signs of theething now but still no sleep.

[ZacsMumme]

So many hugs hun, I dont have a lot of time, but I will be back okay!
Just a few things..you say she has a 2hr A times between her 2 naps. THis is way too short for her age and could be creating a bit of an UT/OT loop as her last A of the day is very long.
 
You talk about trying to get her to sleep with milk/BF/Bottle. Are you still doing this, and if so do you do it at every NW? I suspect there is a litte bit of a dependency on you for her to get back to sleep when she sirs.

Could you do an earlier BT, I think this will be key to you making quick progress however I know some people are restricted with other kids/work etc.

Hang in there

[okcana86]

Oh, thanks very much for replying! Over the past few weeks I am trying to extend her A time.

Not sure what I should be aiming at. Normally her first A time would be 2 hours (around 10am). I tried 3 hours and even 4hours but she startedgoing down very difficult for the naps. She used to fall asleep within 10 mins with 2hr naps (Since I started tweaking her routine its not so easy anymore even after 2hr A time).

I could do earlier BT, but how early? I tried 7:30 and 7 for couple of days with no improvement. Shall I stick with it for longer?

One problem I have is I have to take older daughter to school for 9am and pick her up at 3:30.
LO second nap was 2pm, and then she could have 3rd nap around 5pm. I understand that she should not be having 3 naps at this age, right? So I try not to give it to her.

How can I fit 2 naps around the school run? Can her second nap be at 5pm? If so for how long? and when would her BT need to be to avoid UT?

Or can it be at 1pm for 2 hours? and what would be BT in this case?

I am happy with 7pm BT, would that be ok?

[okcana86]

Other thing is that last night she slept from 8:20pm until 2am. (this is the first such long time before waking in 5 months!) At 2am I gave her 4 oz formula and she went back to sleep until 6am when she was up for the day (the earliest ever in 10 months

her day was like this:

7:30 awake
9:45-11nap

2-4:20nap (resettled her at 1.5 hr mark)

8:20 to bed with 6 oz formula. fell asleep without dummy. (I almost stopped BF and try not to give her dummy at BT anymore, most nights she falls asleep without it, but I still use it for naps. Also almost no dummy at night)

Sometimes she would fall asleep on the bottle at BT.

I tried repeating that day today but she woke at 12am after 8pm bedtime. She was fussing so I gave her water and she tried falling back to sleep for 1 hour(turning and fussing in bed with me, as if she was trying to find comfortable position) I then gave her 4oz milk and she fell asleep after 15 mins on her own with some mantra talk)

Her day today was:

6am awake

8-10:40 nap Woke happy (fell alseep without dummy, took 20mins of putting her down and laying with her)

1:35-4pm nap resettled at 2:30

8pm BT fell asleep 8:30 (no dummy, 8oz formula with cereal, I could tell she was really full, only managed to drink it all in 3 attemtps. But then seemedto be hungry again at 12am??)

Ok,hope all this may mean something to you.
I just dont get how she she managed to sleep for 6 hours last night without waking? Wouldnt that mean she can transit between sleep cycles without me? (over the past few weeks she sometimes started having first sleep after bedtime of 3hours and on couple of nights of 4 hours, which before was only 1 or max 2 hours)

the 3 hours sleep time after BT happened first after a day like this:
up 8am
nap at 10-11:30

nap in pram at 14:30-15:00

nap 6-7pm

bedtime 21:50

woke at 1am and the her usual 1-2 hout wakings

I repeated this kind of day again later on and she woke again after 3 hours. But this schedule is not ideal, with such late bedtime...

That's everything I could think of. I really hope there is light in here somewhere

[ZacsMumme]

Thanks for all the info.
First, for a 10 month old that is a Lot of day sleep. I suspect this is impacting on her night sleep. Has she always been high sleep needs? She could easily manage at least 3 hrs A time before a nap at this age, most LOs would be getting closer to 3.5-4 hrs and the 2-1 ie shortening 1 nap.

The first thing I would do is increase those A times. Once she is getting enough A during the day she will be exerted enough to rest more through the night.

I think you want to head towards something like this for an aerate sleep needs LO her age
WU 6
Am Nap 9/9.30 for 1-2hrs
pm Nap 2/2.30 for 1-2hrs preferably no more than 3.5 hrs day sleep
BT 7pm

[okcana86]

ok,thanks, i'll try that! But might have a problem with 6am wake up, as she usually never gets up that early (and me neither

she normlally sleeps about 1.5 hours naps or 1hr and 2hr nap, almost never more than 3hours in total more like 2hrs (45mins and 1.5hrs naps)
These long naps only due to me resettling her when she woke from her nap, which I never did before. Funnily enough, these two days I resettled her, she slept longer at night..

Which nap shouldbe shorter? I assume first one?

If I put her down for her second nap at 14:00 she can only have 1hr nap as we have to leave 15:15 for a school run. Would that be ok with 7pm bedtime?

If yes, I'll try to give her 1hr nap at 10am and 1hr nap 2pm (awake at 7am, BT 7pm)

This night after 1am 4oz bottle she slept till 5am (and was truning and fussing until 6 when I gave her another 2oz of milkand she fell alseep until 6am) Still much better night (waking 12, 1, 5, 6) than we had previous months (waking every 1-2 hours) and the only change seems to be longer daytime sleep.

[ZacsMumme]

Oh it's just a example if your WU is 7 then just adjust the day accordingly.

Oh I see you have school run to contend with. I your LO only has 1 hr in the PM then you may need a BT of 6.30.

I guess the main thing is consistancy for her at this age, and preventing too much UT or OT at BT as these can really affect nights.

Given that your EaSY posted wasn't typical, can you please post a typical day? Maybe the good night sleep with extra naps were catching up on OT fromthe week.

[okcana86]

typical day was:

Up 8am or 8:30

Nap at 10am for 1hr or 1.5hr

Nap at 13:30 or 14:00 until 15:00

Sometimes 30min to 1hr nap at 5pm

Bedtime either 7:30(if no nap), 8 or 8:30pm(if had nap)

then she would normally sleep first 2hours and then wake every hour or max 2 hours

[ZacsMumme]

She really needs to be on two 2 naps, with at least one being restorative ie 1.5 hrs + and the other shorter ie 45mins-1hr. The 3rd nap will be messing with her night sleep.

The first A is very retry short for a 10 month old, moreappropriate for a 5 month old. So I would first work on pushing that nap out every few days by 15 mins until you are at 3 hrs min.
You could then off another nap on return from school ie 3.30 for 1-1.15 hrs and then BT at 8. You may find though she wants a shorter nap forgone of these I 45 ins which is fine, but you will need to adjust the day accordingly.

Would this work for you as an example.
WU 8
A 3 hrs
S 11-12.30/1
A 3.25
S 4.15-5.15
A 3
S 8.15

[okcana86]

thanks, that should work. She started getting up at 7ish. Can I then extend her first A time to 4hrs? and hope she will start waking up at 8am again?

[okcana86]

here are her days for yesterday and today. Please advise what time I should put her to bed, as her schedule was messed up due to late nap

YESTERDAY

UP 7:15
NAP 10:35-12:40
NAP 15:30 -16:50
BT 8:10 (fell asleep only 8:40)

11:30pm cried but settled herself within 2mins

12:30am cried wouldnt settle I tried to settle with water and dummy but she couldnt fall into deep sleep,was fussing turning, waking up. So I gave 4oz milk at 1am and she fell asleep within 10mins.

5am up crying I was too tired to get up to prepare formula so was giving her water and dummy and didnt realise how 2 hours went by. All this time she didnt have deep sleep, kept fussing, turning, crawling, waking up crying on and off.

Today

so 7am we were up gave 5oz milk she was happyto be up

she did not want her breakfast

NAP 10:25 - 11:45 (she fell asleep immidiately on the pillow after 4oz milk and dummy,which I took out as soon as she fell asleep)

NAP 4:40 - 6:10 ( I tried putting her for a nap at 3pm. Struggled until 3:40 and gave up cause she wouldnt sleep. Then tried again at 4:30 and she fell asleep within 10 mins with dummy

the question is what do i put her down tonight? 9pm?
 

[ZacsMumme]

I would try for 9ish.
It looks like your LO is getting into a bit of a loop. You dont want a day that long and I doubt she does either. 
You are likely heading towards the 2-1 is she is fighting you so much after a 4hr A time. SO ...have a read of these
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0
AND...you need to work out which nap you want your LO to keep as the long one and eventually become the 1 nap. I would go with the one you think your LO most prefers.
What I would try, for 1week is something like this (give or take 15mins or so)

With a short AM long PM nap
WU - Accept any WU after 6.30 (ill use this time as an example for the rest of the day)
A 3.5 hrs
Nap 10-10.45 (wake at 45mins)
A 2.5 hrs
Nap 1.30 for up to 2hrs
A 4hrs
BT 6.30/7

With long AM short PM nap
WU 6.30
A 4hrs
Nap 10.30-12.30 or as long as LO likes if wakes before 1 hr I would try to resettle
A 4 hrs
Nap 4.30-5.15 wake at 45mins
A 2hrs15
BT 7.30

As you cut one nap shorter the A times after it will be reduced and the day gets closer to 12hrs again IYKWIM

[okcana86]

thanks very much, both shcedules look good to me as they account for school runs. Tomorrow is last day at home for my eldest daughter (she had half term holidays) so I will give LO last day to be on the schedule she wants, just to see what suits her best. I will keep A times close min 3hrs to avoid UT.

This is all new to me as with my first one I went on her cues and she slept throught the night from about 6 weeks and even theething didnt bother her. Naps were also when she wanted if she wanted. I really didnt expect second LO to be so challenging.

By the way tonight I put her to bed at 9:20 and she was sleeping by 9:40. Fell asleep crawling all over our bed. Hope its good enough, cause she didnt need any help apart from me lying next to her.

One question I wanted to ask is about night feedings. Is it ok to feed her these two times per night at this age? about 4hrs after BT (12 or 1) and then again in another 4 hrs ? (from 8 weeks to 5.5 months she slept through from 8-4, can she possibly need more feeds now?)

I am happy to feed her twice, though, as long as she doesnt start waking 1-2 hours again. Just wanted to know if I should aim to eliminate these feeds and how or which one first. Any advice on it would be great.

many thanks once again and I am keeping everyhting crossed we are on the road to improvement

[ZacsMumme]

At 10months your LO will not need a NF, however if you are happy to feed in the night then that is up to you and your LO i assume you are BF? How is your LO eating, solids wise? I personally suspect your LO is waking for those feeds as a habitual wake and needs them to get back to sleep rather than being hungry KWIM? Im going to see if I can get some more eyes on this but if you can first post your EASY tomorrow once the day is over then the info will be fresh

I would start that first A time at a min of 3hrs. Most Los this age are getting closer to 3.5-4 however we dont want to push your LO too much too fast incase its too much too quick.