Naps nightmare

[PhoebeEliza]

Hi this is my first time posting so I hope I'm posting in the right place!

I'm having a really tough time with my 4month olds naps and the situation just seems to be getting worse!! At the moment she will only nap for 10 mins to 30mins at a time if I'm lucky she does this between 3 and 6 times a day! She ALWAYS wakes up still tired and is grouchy most of the time. I pay attention to all the sleep signs but it is difficult because she is ALWAYS tired from the first nap onwards.

She also won't sleep in her cot/crib during the day -only in her swing but she has to fall asleep in my arms for at least ten minutes before I put her in it otherwise she just bounces straight back up again!

I'm really at a loss especially because up until a few days ago she has been sleeping 11hours straight every night in her cot (she still falls asleep in my arms but doesn't wake back up if she realizes she is in her cot).

I know I must be doing something wrong I just don't know what it is or how to make a change.

I would like her to be able to have longer naps so that she wakes up refreshed, have them at regular times and sleep in her cot.

I really would appreciate any advice that anyone could give - its horrible seeing her so miserable and tired all the time

Confused mummy x xx

[creations]

Hi there and welcome to BW

First off you are NOT doing something wrong, you are doing what you can which is all any of us can do xx
((hugs)) to you that you're having a difficult time at the moment, it won't be like this for ever.

Many LOs don't nap too well at this age, they spend their first few months working out how to sleep at night (and you have GREAT nights there so you're doing well) and the next few months working out day sleep.  There seems to be a developmental improvement in naps at around 6 months which should give you hope.  Meanwhile there are things you can do to work towards nap improvement though, a consistent routine with a good length A (activity) time should help.

Could you post how your day looks at the moment showing WU time (morning wake up) and S (sleep) times for your real day.  So it might look something like this:

WU 7.00
S 8.30 - 8.40
S 10.10 - 10.30
etc throughout the day up to BT (bed time)

A few more questions to give us an idea of how things are for you:

Have your nights changed recently?

Whilst you hold her to go to sleep do you shush/pat or anything else? Eg singing, rocking, rubbing back or head?

What is your usual wind down for naps and BT?

If you didn't put her down and let her sleep in your arms would she stay asleep longer?  Do you ever do this and does she get a full, long, nap then?

Hopefully we can help you out.
xx

[PhoebeEliza]

Thank you for your reply creations  and for the information about how babies sleep develops! I'll try and answer your questions and hopefully I can start to sort out her routine!

Yesterday was;

WU 6:00
E 6:30
A 6:45 - 7:45
S 7:45 - 8:15
E 8:30
A 8:45 - 9:45
S 9:45 - 10:00
E 10:30
A 10:45 - 12:00
E 12:00
A 12:15 - 13:30
E 13:30
A 13:45 - 14:30
S 14:30 - 15:00
E 15:30
S 15:45 - 17:30
E 17:30
A 17:45 - 18:45
E 18:45
BT 19:00

Wow what a mess  the long nap was because I gave in and held her in my arms for the whole nap but most of the day she refused to nap and physically fights back when I hold her to rock her to sleep 

Ok other questions

No changes at night ( although times can vary by half an hour at BT and WU)
I shh/pat and rock her consistently
Usual wind down for naps is hug and whisper then shh/pat and dummy - for bedtime it is bath, bottle, sleeping bag, hug and whisper, shh/pat, dummy
If I hold her she can sleep for an hour to two hours (like yesterday) and she is OUT COLD ie nothing will wake her

Hope all that makes sense?! Really appreciate your help 

Thank you x x x

[creations]

Hi there.  Phew, you must be exhausted by now!
Hopefully we can help with your routine and get these naps improved some.

Sorry but I can feel some more questions coming on:

1. You are feeding very frequently, is there a reason for this (medical or otherwise)?  Most babies move from a 3hr E to a 4hr E during month 4 and I see your LO is E every 2 hrs or even 1.5hrs.  My own DS stayed on 3hrly E until 6 months because he has silent reflux and just couldn't make it past the 3hr mark so we need to allow for individual circumstances, even so 1.5hr;y E is very short, I am concerned she is snacking and not getting a good full feed to see her through.  How much does she take at each E?

2. I'm just wondering if you might be able to APOP (accidental parenting on purpose) all her naps for one day to make a start at getting her over her OT.  Do you think this might be possible based on your family commitments and also would she fall to sleep?  I see that she CAN sleep in your arms for 2 hrs but you also said she is fighting the cuddle/rock to sleep.  Will she sleep in a pram/car/sling for a good length nap?

3. How long have you been using EASY and BW methods?  Have her naps always been this short or is this a more recent thing?  And for how long has it been like this?

4. For her first nap of the day is she protesting when you do your usual wind down?  How long before the nap time do you start the wind down?

5. Have you ever tried putting her up in her cot for the day naps?  Have you tried recently?

I'm so sorry for all the questions.  Hopefully we can work out a plan for you.

Meanwhile, I would personally AP one or two of her naps each day in whatever way possible (arms/car/pram/sling) just to get her some sleep (and a bit of a break for you too!).  You can enjoy the snuggles and give sleep training a mini-break, hopefully she will be sleeping for naps in her cot soon (and then you will miss the snuggles!)

xx

[aMei]

Hi! I'm so sorry that your daughter is having such a hard time with naps right now. I know how you feel. When my son was 4 months old, he was doing the same thing of really short naps (max 30 minutes) and getting over tired by the end of the day. He would be so tired that he would refuse to nurse even though he was really hungry. It was heart breaking. It was also what promoted us to find BW and start the EASY. It definitely wasn't easy. But, it does get easier. We had to do A LOT of pu/pd for our son to learn to fall asleep in his crib, then was able to help with just shh/pat. Now, we just do our routine and put him in his crib with his lovey. He's out within minutes.

I'm waiting for your responses to creations. But, I just wanted to let you know that I know you feel and there's hope. It will get better.

[PhoebeEliza]

Hi creations here are the answers lol

The feeding is a CONSTANT battle - I have tried to lengthen the time in between for the last month and yesterday managed to go 2.5hrs in between but she is MISERABLE when I do - she is taking 6oz at each feed - I think this is left over from breastfeeding as she has always been a snacker. I have tried giving her more at once but it's a struggle to get her to take the 6 as it is.

I could APOP for a day but she doesn't sleep for as long anywhere but in my arms I thought it might be the warmth or my smell that made the difference so for a week I slept with her binky (soft toy) at night so it smelt of me and heated it in the tumble dryer before her naps so that it was warm but she didn't take to that either.

I have only started the EASY this last week and had some success yesterday as she slept for 3 out of 4 naps in her cot - after 45mins of pu/pd and shh/pat each time but the length has been an issue since 2months before she would nap for 2-3hrs at a time. It coincided with her sleeping through the night I think.

She doesn't protest so much for the morning nap and wind downs are taking upto 45mins

I had tried putting her in her cot in the past but yesterday was the first time I had success - I think because I was more consistent and persistent lol.

I agree with the arms cuddle once a day for now it made a massive difference yesterday

Thanks again for your help x x x

And thanks aMEi - nice to know I'm not the only one

[PhoebeEliza]

Thought I should probably add some background lol!

Phoebe was combination fed from the start as I had serious complications after birth and never had a good milk supply which is why I had to switch to bottle only at Christmas.

She was an amazing sleeper until 2 months only waking twice in the night and napping for 2-3 hours in the day but it all stopped when she started sleeping through the night. She now sleeps 11hrs straight through.

She is also quite a touchy baby, cries as soon as her nappy is dirty and through out nappy changes even though she has never had nappy rash, cried through out bath times until a month ago but still doesn't like it just tolerates it and moans when she is being dressed.

She had terrible wind problems and had a lot of different formulas and medicines for it - not lactose intolerant- but that all settled about a month ago.

I think I caused a lot of the problems because I was so Ill i let things slide a lot and in a lot of ways was over attentive to her. I'm also a first time mum living abroad with no friends or family around in a country where midwives don't exist so I have just been muddling through!

But I want to get things sorted now before it becomes a real problem.

Hope that helps x

[creations]

Sending huge huge ((hugs)) to you!  What a really difficult start you've had!
You sound like a very strong woman to be dealing so well with the challenges you've faced.

I didn't want to read and run without sending you a hug, I can see you are on line  atm and just want you to know that there are lots of supportive mummies here who will hold your hand through this difficult time.
I DO need to run just now, DS is shouting at me to read a book to him and I need to get us ready for a toddler group, but I'll be back later today.

xx

[PhoebeEliza]

Creations thanks for your response. Unfortunately I wish I hadn't started this now I've only been doing it for two days but now she is refusing to go to bed - something that has been working perfectly until I tried to start the EASY

[Fiver]

*hugs* Nothing changes instantly and can take a while to "bed in".  Take heart

[creations]

Oh, I'm so sorry to hear that you're having difficulty in settling her to bed tonight too

The thing to keep in mind at this point is that it WILL get better.

There is only so long you can let her sleep in your arms before you get exhausted or she gets too heavy and moving those sleeps in the cot is going to take some time and work, but it IS possible I assure you and it IS worth it.

Everyone in the BW community has had difficulty with something, that's what leads us here in the first place.
My own LO had problems napping at 4 months too and I had several weeks of him crying at nap time (I cried too at times) but we came out the other side and you will too.  I don't think I will ever forget the burst of utter joy and love the day I put him down in his cot and he beamed this huge grin at me.  It was the most beautiful smile I'd ever seen, so beautiful I risked completely ruining the nap by going back in to see it a second time!  And he went to sleep with that smile on his face.  I can only wonder what happy dreams he had

This is what you will be working towards, a happy baby who goes to sleep in a relaxed and happy manner, and a happy mummy too.  Both you and your LO both deserve for her to have good sleeps in her cot.  You will both be better rested as a result.

I really feel for you.  I have lived abroad without my family and friends around but I was not in that situation with a new baby.
I am sure the BW mummies will be able to help you through this.

OK, on a more practical note...
I am going to move your thread over to the EASY board because I think the whole EASY needs looking at and for you to get support in moving your LO onto a suitable routine including feeds and night as well as naps.
I will follow along and still be around for specific help with naps if needed.

I have also asked for a feeding mod to take a look at your routine too.  They may have some advice about the frequency of the feeds.

Meanwhile, if you are able to get some of those naps in the cot like you did yesterday then that is a great start, continue with that.  If it proves too difficult don't worry about letting her sleep in your arms for now.  One step at a time.
I think the difficulty with going to bed today could be caused by OT which has been building up.  As she hasn't been getting her naps in the swing (even if they were short) she could well be too tired to relax enough to go down easily.

I wish I hadn't started this now

Have you had a think about what you will do if you don't follow EASY and the BW methods?
When we go and change things for our LOs it takes them time to adjust.  They have been taught to eat/sleep in a certain way and then we go and change it on them and tell them to eat/sleep a different way.  They are likely to protest some and things might seem more difficult for a while, but if you help and support your LO through the difficult changes then you will both be better off at the end of it.

If you truly feel that BW is not for you at this time then please feel free to look around the boards (there is lots of useful info in the FAQs sections) and come back whenever you feel ready.
We will always be here for you and your LO xx

[PhoebeEliza]

Ok firstly apologies for my little rant last night! I was tired and frustrated but I am actually making some progress!

I have stretched her feeds to every 3hrs and she is taking a little more from some feeds 7 instead of 6. And she slept in her cot for all but one nap yesterday (I did APOP for one just to get her some sleep).

This morning she went down for her nap on time and slept for 50 minutes on her own yay!!!

BUT last night she woke at 3am for the first time in a long time! So here's hoping it is just a glitch and that like creations says she is just resistIng the changes for now!!!

Still looking for ideas though ladies

X x x

[amayzie]

Great job!! You are more than welcome to rant on here any time you like!! As creations said- everyone on here has had similar problems- at least someone has had them!! It may seem as if you're alone in the dark with a screaming baby FOREVER- but it won't be forever... every minute you are spending doing your own baby whispering is leading to better days and nights for your family!!

Great to heat things are getting better!! One nap APOP is no problem- just focus on the naps today being mainly in the cot. I usually try to not do more than one nap in a row APOP...

Oh and your comment about being over attentive to her- this is in no way a negative- WHat a lucky little girl!! You now just need to direct your 'overattentiveness' into the sleep training- as well as cuddles at other times- and you're there!!

Did you want to ost up tomorrow's EASY as it sounds as if it's changed a little in the last few days so we can have a look to see if any tweaking needs to be done?

[PhoebeEliza]

Hi amayzie

Thanks for your reply! I'll post today's full EASY this evening once I know what's happening lol!

But so far today;

WU 6:00
E 6:30
A 6:45 - 8:00
S 8:00 - 8:30
E 9:30 - 9:45
A 9:45 - 10:30
S 10:30 - 11:00 only slept for 15 mins then I tried resettling her but she became hysterical
E 12:30 - 12:45

I have come up against a problem though - the time between feeds and the times she wants to nap clash! I pushed the feeds to every 3 hours but because her naps are so short she wakes up and has at least 45mins until her feed is due and then today for example at 3.30 she will be due a nap and a feed at the same time!!

Also she is sleeping less and less and needing resettling after 10 to 15 mins pu/pd makes her hysterical and so does shh/pat so in reality I haven't made any progress at all

Really lost with what to do - she has just woken up screaming again so best go

*ok update after 15 minutes in cot asleep she woke up screaming and cried herself to sleep in my arms
- so confused - at night I just put her down in her cot she self settles and off to sleep.

[PhoebeEliza]

PLEASE ANYBODY?!!!!!