Talk to me about different kinds of milk

[Ima shel Alon]

I am wondering if you are giving your LO other types of milk than cow's milk and goat's milk.
I read already that rice milk is not recommended and so is soy, but I saw in the health food shop Almond milk, Spelt milk and Oat milk. Do you have experience with those? And are they nutritionally good enough to swap cow's milk?

[Lemonthyme]

I've only got experience with lactose free cows milk. What's your reasoning for wanting to change? The alternatives are pretty pricey and less natural but they can be vital if your child has an allergy.

[~ Vik ~]

What's your reasoning for wanting to change? The alternatives are pretty pricey and less natural but they can be vital if your child has an allergy.

That's exactly what I was going to ask - why are you wanting to make the switch, and what do you hope to get out of it? Dylan drinks soy milk and it's a bit pricey IMHO (but I use organic to avoid all the GMO/pesticide mess in a crop like soy) but its the cheapest of the alternatives. In addition to almond, spelt, and oat that you mentioned, there are coconut and hemp milks readily available too. I use coconut milk in cooking and baking, it has a creamier consistency and is higher in good fats that the others.  Keep in mind that all the alternative milks (except coconut to a degree) are highly processed, low in fat (which los need for proper development), and must be fortified to contain anywhere near the nutritional profile of cow/goat milk.

[Ima shel Alon]

are highly processed, low in fat (which los need for proper development), and must be fortified to contain anywhere near the nutritional profile of cow/goat milk.

This is what I was wondering, if they are good enough to give to a baby.
I guess my reason is that I read more and more about the effects of dairy in humans in general. I saw this documentary recently (It's not in English so I will not link it here) about several Drs. who say that it's not natural for humans to drink cow's milk (or any other animal's milk), that it has hormones we are not meant to consume and that we are the only "animal" that keeps on drinking milk when we are grown up.
I am not looking to start a debate, I also don't say that I agree with all of that, but I am giving it a thought and researching if there is a better alternative.
We are only giving (and drinking ourselves) Organic cow's milk so I am not worried about that.
Thanks.
 

[Lemonthyme]

I've been interested to read how many people have lactose intolerance to some degree and it is greatly dependent upon your genetics / cultural background.  It's true that some populations don't drink milk much at all but in others milk is drunk a lot and for some it's a really important source of protein and it's definitely a really important source of calcium.

I do worry about people saying "we weren't meant to eat / drink xxx foodstuff" because we weren't designed to eat MacDonalds but we do!  It also implies absolutely no flexibility in human physiology when ok we might not have been eating milk for as long as we've been eating meat but the fact that most people in countries where milk is consumed possess the lactase enzyme proves it was beneficial that people started to drink milk (otherwise that adaptation wouldn't have been favoured.)

Milk is certainly more natural than the alternatives if you're thinking of a straight swap with another "milk", so I would argue no human was really meant to drink rice or oat milk and it's only been in the past 30 years say that they have been drunk at all in Western countries.

Perhaps there is an argument that we do eat too much milk based products though.  Now I'm off milk for a bit after a stomach bug (due to temporary lactose intolerance) it's made me realise just how much I do eat.  That said, milk products generally are being found to help control weight and the associated diseases of the western world.  http://care.diabetesjournals.org/content/30/3/485.full

I think the other thing to think about is in prehistoric times we would have been breastfeeding our kids until they decided not to breastfeed anymore.  That might have been years in the absence of the plentiful food sources that we have now.  So we might not have been having cow's milk but we would have been having milk in some form well through our childhood years.  So perhaps, yes, not into our adult years like we do now.  There are a lot of things we have left behind in the prehistoric era which I'm happy to lose.  The lack of sanitation for one.  High rates of childhood mortality...

IMHO, ease up.  When your back is turned your child will be eating spiders (really) and that piece of carrot which fell on the floor and got missed by the vacuum cleaner.   Within a year or two you will be much less worried.

[Roseii]

Dd2 is mpi and has oat milk.

[~ Vik ~]

I have heard the same stuff Ima - about humans being the only mammals that consume milk outside of infancy/childhood, and being the only mammals to eat another species' milk. I don't think that dairy is necessary for a healthy diet - even aside from allergies and intolerances, there are plenty of vegans who choose to eat no animal products at all and remain perfectly healthy... But it takes a lot of effort to ensure that you get the right balance to meet all your nutritional needs. I have found a ton of information by googling vegan diet and vegan recipes - though we are certainly meat eaters here, vegan recipes are by their nature dairy- and egg-free which makes them safe for Dylan. I just add meat in as I see fit. If you're seriously considering reducing your dairy intake that might be a good place to start, but you just have to have your mental filters ready as there's a lot of misinformation/fear-mongering out there too.

[LisaK1]

My son is MPSI so he has Oat milk (Oatly it is called and is fortified with calcium and nutrients), he has this in additon to his daily vitamin drops and he is just fine.  A little slim but tall and full of energy and very well developed (lots of brain cells firing in this little boy). 

[Little toes]

I give DD almond and coconut milk, half and half in her bottle.

[deckchariot]

my dd2 drinks coconut milk - it's fortified and full of good fats.  She's MSPI, so cow's milk isn't an option for us atm.

[Ima shel Alon]

Thank you ladies for your replies.

LT, how funny that this research you linked was done here, in Israel? The movie I watched was also local, so there you go - people from the same profession saying the exact opposite from each other. I can't decide if this is funny or worrying...
So did I understand right that you said that the Lactase developed because it was actually ok for us to consume dairy?
I totally get your MacDonald's point, but I don't take Alon to MacD's and our diet is very healthy. So on one hand I am not strict with what he is eating (I don't mind the carrot from the floor at all, LOL), but I try to make good choices for him and for us.
But like you said, it is perhaps unnatural as well to consume oat milk and so.

Vikki, thanks, that's a good idea about the vegan recipes. We eat a lot of Tahini which is made from Sesame and rich in Calcium (of course not as much as milk), so maybe I can swap in one of the meals the dairy with that.

[Lemonthyme]

Ha ha!  I didn't notice that!  I suspect within Israel there is a huge mix of people who can and can't tolerate milk which might be the difference. 

I was suggesting that from an evolutionary perspective some individuals would have started to produce lactase and they would have had an evolutionary advantage at being able to get more nutrition from milk or otherwise no-one would have it surely?

Ah I was being flippant about MacDonalds.  I never take my son there either.  The last time I went there was about 4 years ago.

I like the idea of looking at the whole diet though.  Maybe you compromise and make vegan dishes (with added meat if that makes sense) but ones which are high in calcium and then keep milk to drinks?

[Ima shel Alon]

I like the idea of looking at the whole diet though.  Maybe you compromise and make vegan dishes (with added meat if that makes sense) but ones which are high in calcium and then keep milk to drinks?

Exactly! We have to be flexible, no?

[Khalam's Mama]

I am on an ED as B is supsected MSPI. The almond milk and hazelnut milk I am drinking says it is not suitable for a main drink for children under 3yo. I imagine it is because it is much lower in fat, I guess in the same way skimmed milk is not suitable for LO.It is very yummy though and has added calcium so ok for us I think. Coconut milk is also good. All the milk alternatives I have tried (oat/rice/coconut/almond etc) all have added calcium and sometimes ofther vitimins. They are considerably lower in calories than CM though I guess because of the reduced fat content so not ideal for LO.

[Katet]

As you said conflicting information... that is the thing about research (being on myself) you can often target the direction of the work to kind of get it to say what you want to prove... most people start from a point of "I want to prove this, I 90% believe it so I will find information to prove it more - where as the best way to be "objective" is to read 3-4 times  more information that "disproves" what you want to prove.

that we are the only "animal" that keeps on drinking milk when we are grown up.

We are also the only "animal" that cooks/processes our food before we eat it, we are also the only "animal" that offers a processed form of milk to new borns, in the past if they didn't have breast milk, they didn't survive, but now more than 50% of babies are on Formula before 3months in many countries. We are also the only animal that uses other than ourself for transport... I think that "theory" is kind of a mute point given the evolution of humans IFYKWIM

In terms of milk, having worked in Immunology research, one researcher I knew believes (but can't get funding to prove) that one  of the big issues with Diary intolerance is second & third generations... ie the sins of our parents & grandparents. If (like me) your parents were fed milk as a 2month old & then you were given milk (unprocessed not formula in the 30's & 60's) then one school of thought is that MPI is more likely in your children... DS1 was EBF to 4months & then had some formula from then & trialled cows milk at 13mo - big issues, ok with moderate amounts at 18mo. (he has confirmed low level dairy allergy - doesn't drink milk but has limited processed dairy) DS2 was EBF to 6mo (then solids) & no dairy until 11mo & no milk until 18mo - no allergy issues. So for me I do question the Formula (milk based) earlier in DS1's life was part of the issue.  Also we really don't know how much a 'non- hypoallergenic' formula will impact with allergy either in future generations?? & even if it is cows milk in a mature gut that is the issue.  With so many changes in food processing & diet over the last 2-3 generations it is getting harder & harder to know the impacts of other milks too.

One of the reasons Dairy is recommended in the diet is how much it provides in terms of one food/drink unit. The thing about rice/oat/almond milk is they need to be fortified etc to make them as nutrionally balanced as cows milk & we really don't have the long term knowledge as how they impact us, so while short term we know that there are less allergies with it how do we know how it impacts later... the level of processing bothers me as I like l-2 degress of separation to nature.

Given I don't really have a lot of dairy & nor does DS1 we have always looked at the balance of food groups. When Ds1 stopped BF at 13mo he didn't have a bedtime bottle or really any milk as a "drink" in the way I know lots of people give milk, I made sure he had lots of calcium rich foods as part of his diet, he did have formula on his cereal, but we didn't make milk a "drink" it was dairy part of other foods. If that makes sense.

[Ima shel Alon]

Kate, can I ask how did you ensure that they get enough Calcium (and fat as well that is in the milk) if you didn't give milk as a drink?

[Katet]

Up until 18mo DS2 was still BF 2-3/day, so it wasn't an issue with him & then he did start having milk from 18mo... he has always enjoyed a glass of milk & I tend to think if he didn't have issues at 18mo he wasn't going to have issues...  with DS1 he actually was pretty good about things like fish & eggs, so the good fats in eggs & the calcium in fish - ie salmon & mash potato balls were loved at 18mo (not after 3yo ??)  & he ate lots of cheese too & when I say lots I mean he'd have eaten it with every meal when he was younger., he coped well enough with cheese in terms of his allergy when it is processed, so cheese, yogurt & icecream (I found a low sugar one that had less sugar than the yogurt) were what he had. I also bought calcium fortified bread & as he is/was a child that would eat a cow if he had a chance I really didn't have to worry too much about the fats part, but early on avocados were pretty much a staple in the diet of both boys (a good fat)... shame that didn't last!

[Ima shel Alon]

Thanks!

[Smurfette]

Just saw this thread. DD drinks Almond milk after suspected cow's milk allergy for which we're waiting testing. I talked to 2 nutritionalists-one that specialized in children's nutrition and both said it was fine. The almond milk is fortified and as for the fats, as long as DD is getting some the good fats from other sources ie avocado olive oil with veggies, skin on chicken, etc, she is getting all the fats that she needs.
I did try coconut milk, but it didn't have that much more fats in it than the almond but had a higher sodium content so I switched back.

[Khalam's Mama]

That is reassuring thanks.

[Ima shel Alon]

Thanks, Smurfette.