How long for wind down time?

[bluebell568]

Well we seem to have some progress today. This morning I managed to get Hannah down for her nap without rocking her to sleep. I rocked her until she was sucking her thumb and relaxed and then put her in her cot. I lowered the drop side and laid my head right next to hers and kept a much of me in contact with her as I could. She drifted off to sleep.

I stayed with her as you suggested but at exactly 30 minutes she opened her eyes and gave me a lovely smiley grin. I tried to shush her and I laid my head next to hers again but she just stroked my face and cooed at me and then started giggling! She seemed really happy but after 20 minutes of me trying to get her to sleep for longer she was miserable and crying so I gave up. Luckily she was happy and smiling again once I got her up and we had a nice morning together.

I managed to get her to sleep again without rocking for her second nap and this time I left the room. At 30 minutes she cried 3 times but then went back to sleep without me going in. At 40 minutes she cried a bit more and I went in and laid my head by hers and cuddled her and she went back to sleep!!! She cried once at 50 minutes and has just cried once again but it is now 1 hour and 10 minutes since she was first put down. This is the longest nap EVER!!

I won't get too over excited and will continue to take one nap at a time but considering a couple of weeks ago she had never had a nap in her cot I am really delighted with her progress. Thank you so much for your help.

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This is the longest nap EVER!!

Wonderful news!  Well done you!!

will continue to take one nap at a time

A very good approach.  They won't all be successful just yet.  Keep on remembering those successes though, they will keep you motivated and positive.
I know it is really hard work, what you really want is a little break for yourself at nap time and what you're having to do is possibly the hardest part of the day, it will be worth it though.  She is already becoming a little more accustomed to sleeping in her cot, it's great!  She will gradually sleep better and that is good for her and the family too.

Keep it going
xx

[bluebell568]

Hello again,

We've made some good progress with not rocking Hannah to sleep. I now give her a quick cuddle and kiss and put her in her cot awake. Sometimes she settles quickly and other times I have to do more shushing and leaning over her to keep some body contact but I generally don't have to pick her up again. But I'm still getting short naps and I need some more advice about getting the A times right.

One day last week, after quite a disturbed night, Hannah woke at 7 had a feed and then breakfast at 8 and was then having playtime. For the first time ever she fell asleep on her playmat. It was 8.45 and so she'd only had 1 hour 45 of A time. She slept for 30 minutes.  I wondered even though she is nearly 7 months now and should be having more A time, maybe she needs a much shorter A time first thing in the morning.

Today we did

7am  Awake, breastfeed
8am  Breakfast
8.45am Winddown
9am  Asleep  (2 hour A time)

She settled to sleep easily and I was really pleased when she slept through the 30 minute mark without a murmer. She woke just after 45 minutes but was crying and upset rather than awake and happy. I tried to resettle her and she did suck her thumb and seemed to drop off again but she kept waking up. I gave up after 30 minutes of trying to resettle and once I drew the curtains back and got her up she was happy and smiling.

If she wakes up crying and sucking her thumb etc am I right in thinking she needs more sleep? I know 45 minute naps suggest undertired but she really seemed to still be tired and sleepy?? 

My problem then was in working out how much A time to give her before the next nap. She was due a milk feed at 11 and then I would normally do lunch at 12 but if she woke up at 9:45 then a 2hour A time or even 2hour15 would mean the next nap would clash with lunch. I tried to do an early lunch but she took such a long time to explore and play with all the food she didn't finish until 12:30

She then put up much more of a fuss about going down than she did earlier. I've also heard quite a few short cries over the monitor during the nap. It is now 30 minutes and she is doing a few short cries then sucking her thumb then a few more cries. I am waiting to see if she can settle herself but it sounds like she is waking up more.
Any ideas??

At night I have changed my routine so she has her milk feed before her bath and then a story and goes into her cot awake. It has made a big improvement in the number of wake ups before midnight and when she does wake up she isn't rooting for the breast like she used to. But she is still waking up in the night and taking ages to resettle. The night before last she was awake from 11 until 11:30 and then awake from 3:45 until 5:45. Last night she woke at 11 again but went back to sleep easily and then was awake from 1:50 until 3am and I had really problems getting her to settle. Are these night wakings connected to her daytime routine? Do the night waking also impact on her daytime routine because she isn't getting a really good nights sleep?

A few days ago we began to get a few longer naps. She slept for 1 hour in the pram which she had never done before. But the next day she had 3 naps of 10 minutes, 20 minutes and 10 minutes!

Hope you can make some sense of my ramblings!

[bluebell568]

I've just had a good suggestion from Bex on the NightWaking board about Hannah's night waking being due to her A time before bed being short. Today it was only 1.5 hours. Maybe I should be putting her to bed later to get a longer A time. But I worry that with so little day time sleep she will be over tired and that will cause waking. From the FAQ board I see that this is the time when she might move from 3 to 2 naps but until I can get her to nap for longer I can't see that working for us.

Todays EASY in full was

7am Awake and breastfeed
8am Breakfast
8.45 Wind down for nap (went down easily)
9am Asleep (45 mins after 2 hour A time)

11am breastfeed
11.45 lunch
12.45 Wind down for nap (more resitant to sleep)
1.10 Asleep (30 mins after 3 hour 25 min A time)

3pm breastfeed
4.30 Winddown for nap (very resistant at first)
5.00 Asleep (40 mins after 3 hours 20 min A time)

5.45 Dinner
6.30 Bath, breastfeed and story
7.00 Bed
7.10 Asleep (after 1 hour 30 min A time)

I can see just by writing this down that the A times are all over the place. Some advice is definitely needed!

Hope you can help.

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Hi there.
Well you're still doing great with the improvement on putting down and settling for a nap, so keep that in mind when you're struggling with the night wakings and short naps.  It's always good to remember the positives

yes I think the A times need to be more consistent throughout the day and also to work (quickly-ish) towards dropping the CN.

It's true that LOs can prefer a longer A here or a shorter A there depending on their character and what stimulation they have but this is only really advisable if you are getting good naps from the different length As.  When you're not getting good naps the way I'd go is to make the As consistent throughout the day first.

I would suggest bringing the first A up towards 3 hrs, gradually, 15 mins every 3 days.  Bring the second A a little shorter, back down to 3 hrs.  This will help you drop the CN.  If the naps are short they will at least be more spread across the day allowing you to drop the CN, if necessary you could put down to bed early for a while.
This change in routine is a bumpy period and it takes a while to adapt to it but as naps and nights are not running smoothly at the moment anyway it can't really be any worse right?

Your day might look something like this in a couple of weeks (do go gradually with the A increase but keep an eye on where you are headed, going too slowly will just keep her UT leading to OT)
WU 7.00
A 3hr
S 10 - 11.30
A 3hr
S 2.30 - 4.00
A 3hr
BT 7.00

At this age and with routine changes you need to be a little flexible and creative with the feeds.  There may be more than 4hrs between milk feeds but do remember that she is also getting a solids breakfast too, so it won't be over-long without food.

FWIW I found if I gave solids later than 5.15pm we had unsettled nights.  My guess is unsettled sleep due to digesting the solid food (possibly gas too) and also possibly not hungry enough by the BT milk fed to take a really good feed in.  The milk helps through the night a lot more than solids does so keeping the focus on the BT milk intake helped.

hope this helps.  Do ask if you need clarification.
xx

[bluebell568]

Thank you. I think the first A of the day was being affected by how we had slept the previous night. When she had been up from 3.45 until 5.45am she seemed to be tired earlier but this morning (when she had slept through until 6.20am) she was definitely not ready for a nap as early.
Last night I fed her at 11.15pm and I think it was exactly as you say, she had her tea too late and then didn't take in much milk at bedtime and woke 4 hours later for another feed.

So today I am going for an earlier tea and more consistent A times.

Thank you so much for your advice. It is great to have such knowledgeable people sharing their knowledge with us novices!

Happy Mothering Sunday by the way :-)

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Happy Mothering Sunday by the way

And to you x