18mo taking 45mins-1hr to settle at BT-please help

[*foxy*]

Hi

Our 18mo DD is still taking around 45mins and sometimes up ato an hour to go to sleep at bedtime. We are staying in the room with her and are frankly getting quite bored with it! Plus its meaning that shes going to sleep later than she should be so we're getting EW's now too!
I pretty sure thats she's OT. Shes been waking at around 5.30-5.45 but not properly getting up until 6.15-6.30. Ive been lying next to her in the bed in her room until she's ready to get up. She never goes back to sleep no matter what I try but she'll lie next to me quite peacefully for about half an hour.

Ive been bringing her nap forwards from 12.15 to 11.30 in the hope that she'd have 2 hours and then bring her BT forwards to try and catch her up. But she's only napping for 1hr 30 and then takes forever to go to sleep so she's generally asleep by 7.30 which is too late when she's OT!

Has anyone got any ideas on what to do and how to tackle this? She needs more sleep but everything I try seems to back fire!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, could you post up her routine...what it looks like lately anyway.  How long has this been going on?  Any changes going on?  Teeth?  Developmental?  Has she always slept independently before this?

There's a well-known regression at 18 mths...we've all been there (((hugs)))

[*foxy*]

Hi

Thankyou for your reply. This has been going on for about 2 months. Her routine at the moment looks like this:

Wake 5.45 (but doesn't get up until 6.30)
Nap 11.30/12 for an 1hr 30
Bath 6
Asleep 7.30

Wind down is pyjamas, milk, teeth, stories, cuddles, cot

We've ALWAYS had sleep issues and she varies with independent sleep. At the moment she goes to sleep in her cot by herself (sometimes needs cuddles) but we have to stay in the room with her. She's waking once in the night, most nights at around 1am. Sometimes she'll settle quite well with us stroking her back but other times she just won't go back in her cot so she ends up in our bed. She goes back to sleep in about 15/20 mins.

She's not teething at the moment and there's nothing major going on that I can think of.
I'm just not sure how  to get past this.

[*foxy*]

Ok, so last night she woke at 1am, I got her into bed with me because I've been ill and just didn't have the energy to settle her. She went to sleep no problem.

Woke 5.45 (cuddled very peacefully next to me until 6.30)
Nap 12 (for 2 hours! I had to wake her up)
Bath 6.15
Asleep 7.30

She settled more quickly tonight. I sat next to her cot and tried not to help her at all. But she was thrashing and squirming around and getting herself all worked up so I just stroked her back and she quickly calmed down, then she cuddled my arm and went to sleep.

We're going to try the GW technique and hopefully at some point in the future we'll be able to walk out and she'll happily go to sleep all on her own! That's the plan anyway!!

So for some reason today she had a longer nap and I even had to wake her up which hasnt happened in AGES
But she's still waking early............and obviously not getting the right amount of sleep for her age.
How does our routine look?

[clairebear79]

Hi there.

The only thing that stands out to me routine-wise is that her nap is quite early, given what time she goes to bed.  She might be overtired come bedtime, particularly if she is usually awake for 5.5hrs+ after a 1.5hr nap.

We've just escaped a spell of EW & my DS was napping at 11/11.30am for 2hrs & the way we've done it is to very gradually push his nap later to start at 12.30pm.  We did this by pushing it 15mins later per week so it took quite a while, & he did get quite OT whilst we did it, but I have to say it has helped tremendously.  Our routine at 18.5months is now:

WU: 7am,
Nap: 12.30-2.30  (I wake him from this nap after 2hrs)
BT: 7.30pm (he is asleep within minutes)

I think perhaps a combination of routine tweak and working on GW should help.

[*foxy*]

Ok, thanks. I wasn't sure how to deal with the OT. I thought I'd try and tackle it by bringing the nap forward because she was awake so early (we used to do 12.30-2.30) hence she'd have an am A time of 6.45  hours and a pm A time of 5 hours. So I thought I'd shorten the am A time and bring BT forward but she would take so long to settle that she would never be asleep before 7.30.

If she's waking at 5.45 and currently napping at 12, I was worried that the am A time was too long? But she actually had a good nap for the first time in ages and settled more quickly at BT?

My concern is when she slept until 2.30 a couple of months ago, she was taking an hour to go to sleep at BT, finally going to sleep at 8pm and we were having NW's lasting 3 hours!

[clairebear79]

I think you did right to bring the nap a bit earlier as a short term fix to treat OT, BUT keeping it early in the long run isn't necessarily going to help b/c her early WU is likely to continue.

Some LO's of 18 months can easily handle 6hrs A in the morning, & some are getting to an age where the nap may need cutting back.  SO it might be she is telling you she is ready for a slightly later nap now.  I can't say for sure though while she continues to nap early.  IIWM I would gradually push the nap back to its former 12.30-2.30 & do 7.30pm BT.  If her WU shifts later again, & then you start to get BT battles again, I would probably consider either pushing BT to 8pm & accepting a shorter night, OR capping the PM nap a wee bit shorter at 1.75hrs & see if this helps her BT/nights.  I'd probably do the latter as IMO its better to have a shorter day/shorter nap but longer night, than a longer day/longer nap/short night IYSWIM?

[*foxy*]

Ok, thanks. That makes sense. She was up early again today and woke in the night again.

I'll try a nap at 12.15 for a few days and then try at 12.30 and hope hope hope that this helps with the EW and maybe even the NW!?

[*foxy*]

Hi

I did exactly the same in the morning yesterday (she was asleep by 12.15 - woke for the day at 5.45am) but she only had a 1hr 30min nap. So I bought her BT forward and she was asleep by 7.15 - I would've liked a little earlier but she takes a long time to settle.

The NW's are really taking their toll, Im SO tired, I can't remember the last time I got a good nights sleep. She's waking around 11, goes back to sleep with a little help but then wakes crying about 45mins-1hour afterwards. I think shes got used to sleeping in our bed, which we are stopping as of tonight. But why is she waking at 11? Is it OT?
Shes still waking at 5.45. Ive done the same today and put her down so that she was asleep for her nap at 12.15, Im just crossing my fingers that she'll have a good nap!

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I think pp has given good advice - I don't think the bedtime was early enough.  If she's taking so long to settle I think it's OT second wind and you need to do a longer wind down at an earlier time.  So if she's up at 5:45 with a 1 hr 30 nap at around 12, then I'd start winding down at 5:30 with aim to have her asleep by 6 pm/6:15 latest.  When sleep is so wonky I go back to basics and aim for that 12 hr day/night scenario - no more than 12.5 hrs if you can manage.

(((hugs)))

[*foxy*]

Thankyou for your post. We've been doing a 6pm bath with a wind down after that and then she was aleep by 7.15 (which was pretty quick for her). So Ill try and bring it all forward tonight. If she has a 2 hour nap today so naps from 12.15-2.15 should I still try for her to be asleep by 6/6.15? or try for maybe 6.30/6.45?

The other problem is is that Im trying to do GW at the moment as well because she has far too much help going to sleep so this doesnt help with her taking so long to settle. I guess even more reason to have the wind down earlier.

[*foxy*]

She's still doing a 1hr 30 min (nap at 12.15) with a 6.5 hour am A time. Is there anyway I can get 2 hours from her? She's still waking at 5.45am, she was asleep at 7pm last night and woke twice.

[clairebear79]

WRT nap - when I pushed DS's nap later we shifted it 1.5hrs later in 15min increments so it took around 6 weeks in total.  During that time we had some pretty short naps b/c he got OT from the really long A time in the morning.  Some days were 1.5hrs, but some were 45min-1hr 10.  I have to say it was quite brutal & a tough old few weeks to get through b/c he was very very tired, but I stuck with the naptime & BT religiously (only doing slightly earlier BT if he short napped) & it truly did reset his bodyclock.  It may just take a bit of time.  

However, if you feel she is struggling with the long day, esp while she is doing a 1.5hr nap, you could always pull BT back a touch to 6.30/6.45pm & see if her night lengthens.

If you do get a 2hr nap though I would be wary of shortening the 2nd A too much.  As despite her being tired from the long day, you will end up with her not being tired enough to sleep a long night.  So I would keep it as near to 5hrs as you can.

xx

ETA: oh & WRT the NW at 11pm & whether they might be OT - IME OT NW's usually happen in the first few hours after BT, & again in the early hours.  So I suppose an 11pm NW *may* be OT, but it may also be related to her sleeping your bed/needing help to go to sleep.  If you are doing GW, hopefully that will eliminate the latter as the cause.

[*foxy*]

Ok, thankyou. I'm being too impatient!!

So a nap of 2 hours at 12.30-2.30 and a BT of 7.30 with the hope of a WU at 7am is what I should be aiming and hoping for eventually!
And a long am A time is fine but I should try to keep to  a 5 hour pm A time to try to prevent OT or UT at BT (depending on the nap)

[*foxy*]

Can it gets worse before it gets better??? she's now waking at 5.30 and getting up straight away. she was waking at 5.45 and lying peacefully until 6.30. ?

I've put her down at 12 (hoping for at least 1hr 30) and then aiming for BT at 6.30 at the latest. does that sound ok?