18mo taking 45mins-1hr to settle at BT-please help

[*foxy*]

Not a bad night really.

BT 7.20, NW 12 (but amazingly settled herself) and then again at 4.30 but she was standing up in her cot so DP just got her into bed in her room with her and she fell asleep until 6.15!

I'll stick to an hour and 3/4 nap from 12.15-2 today. I'm hoping the clock change on Sunday will help us rather than make things worse!

[creations]

Hi
Have you seen this info?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.0
There are 4 links within that one.
The example in the first is for gentle removal of a breast feeding or paci prop, but tbh you can adapt the method for your own situation with regards to removing your hands and yourself from the room.
The 4th link is this one
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=52857.msg1845495#msg1845495
Which is well worth a read if you haven't already, again you would take the general idea of GW and adapt it to your particular situation, planning in advance the steps you will take to reduce and reduce whilst still offering comfort.

I think it helps to keep the GW moving so that LO doesn't get too accustomed with each stage.  Whilst it's ok to go 'back' to a previous stage to help sooth, moving on from it as soon as LO is calm promotes the weaning progress.

[*foxy*]

Thanks, I've had a look through it. We seem to be a little behind on implementing the techniques!

She relies heavily on having some contact with us before she goes to sleep, even if its just my hand on her back. She's the same when she's tired, she loves cuddling my arm. I guess we've just got to wean her off it at BT. It was interesting reading about concentrating on GW much more at BT than nap times as I've been trying to do both.

She still takes a long time to settle at BT, we're hoping that this will improve too but talking to my parents, I was exactly the same so maybe she just takes a long time to wind down, no matter what we do. Surely not ALL babies fall asleep in 5 minutes of being put in their cot?

[clairebear79]

Thanks for that creations

Surely not ALL babies fall asleep in 5 minutes of being put in their cot?

My LO doesn't!  But I will admit he is usually down in around 10mins, 15 at most.  He likes to lay & chatter to his teddies for a bit & I think this is his way of winding down.  However, if he takes longer than that, it is usually down to UT/OT.

How's she got on today?

My LO pulled 2x 11.5hr nights at the weekend after capping his nap at 1h 45, but Sunday night had a few cryouts which I suspected was OT.  So yesterday I let him have his full 2hr nap, and we paid for that this morning with a 10.5hr night & 6am EW - ugh!  I suppose at least it proves to me that capping his nap is definitely what's needed!

[Bex09]

Hi there, sounds like GW would work really well for your situation. We used it at 14 mo with my DD to get her to fall asleep without being held and it worked brilliantly. Here to offer support and any advice if you need it.

So is your DD falling asleep in her cot but with your hand on her at the moment? Does she stand up at all when you are there?

[*foxy*]

Clairebear: That's great that you know what's working. I'm still in the dark really.

Yesterday she only slept for 1 1/2 hours, BT 7.30, we had a NW of an hour 3-4 (she just wouldn't settle, even in our bed) and up at 6am.

Today she slept 12.15-2.15 (she was tired from the long NW so I let her have 2 hours)
BT 7.30, she did well actually and I'm gradually doing less to help her. It's taking about 30 mins for her to go to sleep. She never goes to sleep before 7.30 no matter what we do, unless she hasn't slept all day. So we'll see how tonight goes!

Bex: Yes, she's going to sleep in her cot either holding my hand or with my hand on her back. Yes, she sits up, stands up, thrashes around, kicks the cot sides, she only calms down when she's got some contact with me. Tonight, I had my hand just inside the cot, sitting next to her cot and she held it until she went to sleep

[Bex09]

OK well the first part of your work is done in that at least your DD is actually falling asleep in her cot. 

What we did from this point was to lie on the floor next to the cot and rub her back for a few minutes and then take a hand off so there was no contact. If DD cried a proper cry we used our sleepy phrase and put a hand back on her, once she calmed we took our hand off again. We kept doing this and only making contact if she cried until she fell asleep. We also totally ignored any other attempt to interact with us, so if she stood up or sat up we just lay there and pretended to sleep, no PD or anything like that. The reason for this was that too much interaction was too stimulating and prevented her from sleeping. We needed to be as boring as possible so that she lay down and went to sleep, which she did.

Then the next night we avoided putting a hand on her at all and just calmed with our voice using our sleepy phrase or shushing. If she got too worked up then I would briefly put a hand on her but not for long. From this point on and once DD could fall asleep without any contact from us, then we just started moving further away from the cot towards the door each night. Within a week we could WO and shut the door and she would fall asleep herself.

The thing to remember is that your DD will cry, thrash and protest as she will be angry and frustrated that you have changed how things are done. BUT remember you are right there with her and she is not feeling unsafe or scared. Just keep using your sleepy phrase and a hand on her when needed but try to limit any other interaction. Does that make sense and help at all? Here to hold your hand all the way hun, you can do this. 

[*foxy*]

Hi

Thankyou, that's really helpful. I will start tonight! For the NW's should I do the same thing as for BT? We're currently bringing her in with us which I need to change asap.

She was up at 5.30 again this morning I guess 2 hours for her nap is too long, no matter what the previous night has been like ?

[Bex09]

When we did GW we used it to get our DD to fall asleep at BT and for naps too. But really that is a personal choice. I found that I needed to be consistent with both for my own plan, so that I wouldn't think 'oh well she still gets held to sleep for naps so this once at BT won't hurt' yk?

As for the NW we didn't do GW at first and were also bringing our DD in with us too. Although it didn't effect her learning to settle herself to sleep it did nothing to stop the NW as she was waking and wanting to come in our bed. As soon as I stopped that (by using GW there too) DD started STTN for 12 hrs!!! So if she woke in the night I would do exactly as I had done for her falling asleep at BT. TBH we were able to move much quicker with the NW, I guess because by then she was falling asleep independently so she could self settle. It only took a coupl of nights and some NW I just had to open her door and she would calm down and fall back to sleep straight away. How did your night go?

[*foxy*]

Hi

She woke at 12, wide awake and I got her into bed with me. She took about half an hour to go to sleep, then was up at 5.30.

So maybe we should start with BT for a  couple of nights and then tackle the NW's I'm SO tired I don't think I'd be very effective with the NW at the moment!

At BT, if  she stands up crying should I just talk to her rather than lie her back down?

[*foxy*]

Hi

I did the usual wind down routine, she was tired from being at the childminders. I put her in her cot and she complained a bit, sat up and hit her mouth on the cot sides so I had to pick her up because she was in pain. Once she'd settled, I put her back in her cot, which she didnt like but I let her hug my hand and I spoke quietly to her. Then I sat down on the edge of the bed next to her cot, which she didnt like either but again I stroked her head and spoke to her. Once she'd settled I stopped contact with her and for the next 15 minutes she stood up, thrashed around, waved a teddy at me, kicked the cot sides etc etc. She then started to become upset so I let her hold my hand and then I took it away once she'd settled. It upset me a bit because she was reaching through the cot sides to try and get hold of my hand. I tried to put my hand on her tummy or back but she kept holding my hand so I prised my hand away and managed to have my hand on her tummy until she settled and kept taking it away until she was asleep.

Im not sure if that went well or not really, I think its a start at least! Its a shame because its so sweet her holding our hand and I hate prising my hand away but I know Ive got to do it to help all our nights!

[*foxy*]

She did quite well tonight, although she took a very long time to settle, I managed to avoid her holding my hand without too much trouble. I think its getting better!

[Bex09]

It sounds like it went well hun, well done. HUGS because I know how hard it is when your LO is getting so upset, but as you say if you want her to learn to fall asleep without you then you have to make the move somehow. With GW you can take it at your own pace though, so if you want to let her hold your hand for longer and only take it away when she is more drowsy but not asleep then that is fine. The whole process will take slightly longer the slower you move away but you don't have to go as quick as we did. TBH I was very lucky and my DD amazed me with how well she handled it, so we were able to move at quite a pace taking her lead.

As for the standing up for 15 mins, waving teddies, etc my DD tried all of that too with the added entertainment of dropping her dummies/pacis on my head!! I just ignored it all, she wanted me to interact with her and by not doing this she soon got bored and lay down and went to sleep. I obviously didn't ignore the crying, I responded to this with a hand on her or using my voice to  calm her. But the messing around and fussing I didn't react to. HTHs. How are things going now?

[Bex09]

Posted before I saw your reply hun sorry! That is a great update, sounds like you are doing so well. Keep us posted, it will get easier I promise.

[clairebear79]

Yay great progress well done!!!!  Hope things continue to improve.  Keep us posted.x