15 mth old and can't stay awake for than 3-3.5 hrs during day

[meredith1851]

Hi, my 15 mth old DS only seems to do 10 to 10.5 hrs of sleep per night and always wakes early.  After he gets up in the AM, he is always so tired and can't seem to go more than 3 hrs before his 1st nap which is usually from 9:30-11:30ish. (He starts getting super tired though after 2.5 hrs).  He then has lunch and A time and goes back down for a 45-1 hr nap around 2:30/3ish as again he can't seem to stay up more than 3 ish hrs.  He goes to bed around 7:30 and starts to wake around 5 but nods on and off till about 6 AM.  Thoughts on this?

[mickey44]

Kind of sounds like 2-1 transition.  We always did a short morning nap then long afternoon nap and slowly reduced the length of the morning nap therefore bringing the afternoon nap earlier until we had about a 30 min morning nap around 10 and afternoon nap around 12:30/1:00 then one day I went for it and didn't do the morning nap and did one nap around 11:00/11:30 and overtime pushed it out to the middle of the day.   

[clairebear79]

Agree re 2-1.  He is tired b/c of the short nights, but the short nights are probably b/c he needs some longer A's.  The long & early morning nap is also likely to encourage the EW to continue b/c he can make up for his lost night sleep during that nap.  Its a bit of a catch 22 really.  Unless you cut the day sleep/extend the A time he won't sleep more at night.

We also did short AM nap/long PM nap & held onto that until around 15 months when we did same as PP.  Many mums also find success with long AM/short PM.  The choice is up to you.  If long AM is your preferred route, I would suggest very gradually pushing his morning nap a bit later, perhaps by 15mins every week or 2.  This should help with the EW.  As the AM nap gets later, the PM nap will get nearer to tea-time.  To prevent him from refusing his BT, the PM nap will need to be gradually cut shorter until it is eventually just a catnap & is able to be dropped.  Personally I found short AM more effective in dealing with EW, but we were in this position at a much younger age.  Since your DS is already 15 months you may be better staying with your long AM & work on slowly moving it closer towards lunchtime.

Perhaps have a read through the following links:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=41952.0

& here's a support thread where you can chat to other mums of LO's going through the transition:
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=215407.0

Any questions let us know!

[meredith1851]

Thanks SO much!! I will see if I can start pushing his AM nap out a bit and see what happens :-)

[meredith1851]

So I pushed his nap from 9:30 to 9:45, BUT, he woke at 4:30 this AM so I caved and gave him 4 oz of milk. It put him back to sleep till 6:45. This happens often. Is it possible the EW's are due to hunger and if so is it really that bad to give a bottle in the early AM hrs to ge them back to sleep till they are a bit older?  We just recently weaned him from middle of night bottle a few weeks ago and he is doing well with the exception of EW's.  I can't help but think he is hungry around 4/5AM.

I also had another question: For the past 2 weeks he has been waking 2-3 times per night every few hrs crying out for 10-15 seconds and then it goes quiet.  I don't go on as I believe he is dreaming but feel bad as it sounds like he is having bad dreams. Thoughts?

[mickey44]

I'm wondering if maybe that 4/5 am waking is habitual.  Is that the time he always fed before you cut the NF?

[Mama_Mia]

is it really that bad to give a bottle in the early AM hrs to ge them back to sleep till they are a bit older?

You have to do what you feel alright with. My DS is 16 months and I HATE being up in the middle of the night or before 7am so if he wakes, he gets a bottle. I will worry about getting rid of it when his sleep is better

[clairebear79]

(((hugs))) hun.  I know he had a 4.30am NW this morning, BUT really great that he went back to sleep til 6.45am!

Provided he is eating well during the day, he shouldn't technically *need* any feeds at night at this age, so it could be habitual, but I think tbh - if it puts him back to sleep at the EW I'd probably continue! 

Nothing whatsoever would put my DS back to sleep when he EW, not bottle, not cuddles, not rocking, not cosleeping & believe me we tried them all!

WRT the repeated NW's this may just be him transitioning between sleep cycles, or it may be b/c he is a tad OT.  I certainly found with my LO, that if he is OT we get little cry-outs like that.  I also found that if the bulk of his day sleep was early in the AM then he would often be OT by BT & this is what we'd get.  And of course, OT can be one of the biggest causes of EW.

I think if you keep very gradually pushing that AM nap a bit later, it really should help.  xx

[meredith1851]

Thanks everyone    He has always woken up for some strange reason between 4-5AM. He eats just fine during the day and I even give him a small snack before bed with some milk in a sippy.
So as for how it went today with the sleep, he slept for 1.5 hrs this AM (he usually does 1.5-2 hrs) and 1.75 hrs this PM. (We had to wake him because it was 4:30PM). He went to bed fine at 7:30PM.

[clairebear79]

Oh good.  Hope you have a decent night.  You might need to be careful about letting him nap too long in the afternoon, esp if you want to keep the morning nap as the longer one, as you *might* find this leads to EW.  Hopefully it won't though!

[meredith1851]

Hi everyone, just thought I would give an update: Daylight Savings in the US seemed to really help as DS has been going down closer to 10/10:15 AM and still taking a solid (usually) 2-2.25 hr long nap.  The only issue with this is now he is resisting the late afternoon nap and his A time is rather long from the time he wakes up till bed so is acting a bit fresh and on edge as BT approaches, BUT he seems to be having more nights where he is sleeping a little bit longer.

[clairebear79]

Thats good to hear.  I think if you find he is resisting the PM nap I'd be inclined to try & nudge that AM nap a bit later on towards 10.30 & then on to 11am (very gradually of course!).  I also found that at this stage in the transition, early bedtimes really helped overtiredness from setting in, particularly when they skip the PM nap & the A time to BT would otherwise be too long.

[meredith1851]

I have a new update and could use some advise. For the past few days he is still utterly exhausted after 3-3.5 hrs after waking up, puts his head on the ground, lies on the ground and practically begs to go down for his AM nap which until a few days ago was always his nice 2 hr nap. The past 3 days when I put him down he is awake after 20 min and then really tired when I get him up and have had to put him back down after lunch where he sleeps for a few hrs.  What is going on??

[Mama_Mia]

I'm sorry hun, no advice but wanted ask, are you SURE he is sleeping during the night?

[meredith1851]

He fairly recently started sleeping through the night for about 10-10.5 hrs :-)