What to do if EBT doesn't work?

[Shiv52]

Rosa is driving me bananas with her sleep. I can't seem to get us into a decent routine that works.  I have a school run in the afternoon and leave the house at 12.55pm and usually back about 1.30/1.40pm. 

For ages we did long am/short pm but then she started refusing the pm nap so swapped it round but even with a half hour nap in the morning she refuses the pm nap unless it really late.  We pushed to one nap and she was doing

wake up 7.30
nap 11-1
bed 7.30

So yes a huge A time to bed. 

For a while i tried to push the nap to after the nursery run so the day was

wake up  7.30
nap  1.30-3
bed 8

but she found it really really hard to last and after 3 weeks i moved back to the nap at 11am and started to do EBT at 6/6.30 which really really doesn;t suit but i thought I'd give it a go. She has not added to her nights at all. She just wakes at 6am, sometimes 5am. 

I am not willing to start our day before 7am so the EBT has to go. It never worked with M either.  Neither ever tacked on.

So if EBT doesn;t work what can i do.  I didn't have to collect M today and she has done

Wake up 7am
Nap 11-? is still sleeping now
and so bed will be 7/7.30 ish

And i think this would actually be a perfect routine for her  but not with the school run. 

Should i just power through and get her nap to after teh school run and make BT later and wake up later?

[Roseii]

EBT rarely works here too, I hate that!
How much A time do yoh think she needs generally til nap? 4 hours is obviously super short and I'm guessing wouldn't always work, I'm guessing she did that today as she was so OT?

Do you think she is low/high sleep needs?

I'd be tempted to try for a 7.30am WU, 1.30-3 nap, 8pm BT. This kind of routine works quite well here if I can manage to keep her awake til the nap!!

My gut feeling is she doesn't *generally* EW so a pre school-run nap isn't ideal?? Only cos she'll start to catch up, then not be tired enough to squeeze in a nap that's of a decent length. I had to power thru with dd2 for a 12.45 nap (she gets super tired in the am and would happily nap earlier) as it was the only way of getting in a decent nap length (after school run) Maybe you need to power thru with it and set her body clock?

[Buntybear]

Mmm that is tough. It is only now at 2years plus that Olly's nap is after 1pm. That is a long 1st A. I guess it depends on whether she does better with a long 1st or second A time - and what fits in with you better. If early starts are a no no then that is your answer!

[~Emma~]

Ugh, my lovely. I feel your pain.  

 OK, so how long did she sleep for in the end today?

 I think your only 2 options are thus....


 You can maybe ask nursery to have M for an extra hour. It will mean paying for it but this is what I did through 2-1 with D as it was such a nightmare. Costly but effective. It was the naptime right in the middle of drop off (B went afternoons) that was driving me batty.

 Power on through. Her A time will catch up but you'll have a helluva lot of OT to mop up on the way. I do think there is alot to be said for setting bodyclocks though but as you well know the journey there isn't always easy.

 I think D is possible lower sleep needs than R and she finds it really hard to last until 1 for a nap. In fact today it was 11.30 she was down.  

 How are her nights? Any OT WUs? Molars through? D's cutting them right now and its but her A's right back. Hence the silly early nap this AM.

 ((((hugs))))) D rarely tacks and I certainly never count on it even if she does for a couple of nights. It sucks.

 

[Shiv52]

Thank you lovelies!!!  I am demented.

Charli...even when she has normal 7.30am wake up she will nap about 11.30 but you are right we had started running into the problem that she was napping later and later and then only getting an hour before I had to wake her.   I think she is average where the sleep needs are concerned but she handles long A times and OT well. 

Emma....she ended up sleeping for FOUR hours!!  Only woke at 3pm and i just let her as she was clearly busted.  She actually seemed tired about 7.30 but did bedtime at 8pm and she was out in seconds.   

I'd be tempted to try for a 7.30am WU, 1.30-3 nap, 8pm BT. This kind of routine works quite well here if I can manage to keep her awake til the nap!!

Power on through. Her A time will catch up but you'll have a helluva lot of OT to mop up on the way. I do think there is alot to be said for setting bodyclocks though but as you well know the journey there isn't always easy.

I think you are right.  I may just need to power on through.

That is a long 1st A. I guess it depends on whether she does better with a long 1st or second A time - and what fits in with you better.

Maybe now she's a bit older she may handle it better?  Because you are right, it is a long A time for her I think. 

Em, M's nursery is a state one and staying isn't an option otherwise I would do it. 

You know what bugs me though.....I am afraid of pushing this nap out to 1.30pm because come September the school pick up is going to be at 2pm and how am I going to get her napping earlier!!!

How are her nights? Any OT WUs? Molars through? D's cutting them right now and its but her A's right back.

Her nights are rubbish although I've been tackling the NWs and we are down to 2 but she is a torture.  Just shouting milk and out and down in the middle of the night.   She is teething all her incisors and can tell me she has sore teeth so I don't doubt that is affecting things.

So aim for 1.30 then? UGH.   I will so miss that nap even if it was shortish as it is my only time to myself to get things done.  Its so hard with two isn't it?  Even getting her to nap in the afternoon after nursery is a pain as it will be messed up with playdates for M etc. 

[Roseii]

Ok, what time do you need to leave the house for school run?
If you like the earlier nap, it works for you, and she will go down, maybe stick with that? Could she do, say 11.15-1? And instead, power thru with the longer afternoon?

[Shiv52]

She would do that I think.  What time do you think is a reasonable bedtime after that nap?  Obviously the later the better?

[Roseii]

Hmm, well dd2 is a bit older, but she does handle long  PMs quite well. I think I would do:

7.30

11.15-1

7.30 for 7.45 asleep?

Whatcha reckon? I think you'd need to be quite strict wih WU and BT and roll with the nap length as she muddles thru? I think she's just about old enough to push her thru it...

[Shiv52]

Yeah that's a reasonable bedtime!  Ok I think that sounds like a plan and then it means that longterm as her A times do get longer I can do 12-1.45 to fit the primary school run at 2pm. 

I will have to be strict with WU!  Thanks for the reminder xx

[Roseii]

Urgh sooo hard when you've had NW, believe me I know!! Had to drag the pest out of bed at 9am t'other day, as she'd been up for about 2 hours in the night

[Shiv52]

Rosa was up from 11.30 to 3.30 am on Tuesday night!!!!  UGH!!!

[Roseii]

Yikes!! It's been a while since we had a 4 hour-er but 2 hours is standard
Good luck hun

[Shiv52]

Thanks hunxx

[Roseii]

FYI this was our day today:
7.30
12.45-2.30 (I woke her)
8.15ish asleep.

I have no idea if she will sttn, but I hold out hope!!!

[Mashi]

Ok, what time do you need to leave the house for school run?
If you like the earlier nap, it works for you, and she will go down, maybe stick with that? Could she do, say 11.15-1? And instead, power thru with the longer afternoon?

Shiv I agree with Charli here, I would do the 11:15 to 1pm nap...the only difference is that I would do an earlier bedtime than 730 but that is also clouded by the fact that my DS is average/high on the sleep needs....I always figured a 10 hour awake time was best for him. So he was seriously pesky enough that the 15 minutes made a difference to him So not getting a full 2h nap would mean for him 30 minutes shaved off of his 12h day.  Wake at 730 and with the 1h45m nap I would need him asleep for 7pm, so bed at 645?  But if you say she is not high sleep, then I would do 715bed still and hope she is asleep for 745. Otherwise start tweaking a bit earlier to see if it helps.  But as Bunty said above, my DS was so much older before the nap could be that late....actually he only started making it to 130pm at about 3yo so I would be more inclined to go for earlier than later!