Desperate bed time(s) with 2 year old

[jordiwes]

I have just finished 1.5 hours of WIWO with my 2 year old DD2... crying, screaming and hyperventilating.

WIWO always worked well with my DD1, but I haven't really had to use it with DD2, she was much easier, I could use GW.

But the last few months GW hasn't worked very well. So I've been trying WIWO.
DD2 just crying the minute she hits the bed. She wants me in there of course, but she's slept independantly since 3 months old.

Usual routine is
Awake 8:00am
Nap 1:30-3:00pm
Asleep 8:30 or 8:45pm

She's average sleep needs, rarely does EW. We usually wake her in the morning.

She just started this routine of crying at bedtime and now it's become a habit. I was staying in until she fell asleep, but that's got to stop.
I tried a little WIWO last week and that worked well for a week (she was going to bed and just talking and kicking the walls then fall asleep).
Then one night she cried a couple of nights ago and now every night since.
Last night she fell asleep at 9:30, woke at 5:45 and wouldn't go back to bed. Then nap 8:45-9:30 and 1:30-3:00. I tried to put her to bed at 8:15 tonight and that resulted in 1.5 hours of crying/screaming.
I don't even know what time to wake her in the morning!
I have no idea if she's OT or UT when I put her to bed!
Any advice about any of it would be appreciated!!

[Buntybear]

We went through BT probs at 2 and it turned out that Olly was UT - I had to cut his nap right back to 1 hour.

I also think that we had teeth thrown in there and there is a 2 year regression 

[jordiwes]

Should I continue with WIWO? She was pretty tired tonight and she is still crying

[<Catherine>]

I have no idea if she's OT or UT when I put her to bed!

Possibly both. She may be UT at BT (so nap capping will hopefully help, as PP has suggested) so not settling, and by the time she does she's OT which leads to the EW.

[weaver]

It's an absolute minefield, and we're in it too right now!

I've had to resort to techniques we used a year ago to help him settle himself.  He has been chatting for up to an hour and a half, with only occasional crying.  We go in if he cries/calls, but we also go in if it's clear he really isn't settling himself.  So if he's been awake for a hour or so, I will sit with him with my hand on his back, just as I had to when he was much younger. A new element is me telling him to be quiet, no talking and it's sleeping time. That does seem to work with him.  He's always been the type who has difficulty getting himself out of OT so I reckon he needs the help and I know he hasn't forgotten how to self-settle, he's just not able to right now.

[Buntybear]

I have no idea if she's OT or UT when I put her to bed!

Possibly both. She may be UT at BT (so nap capping will hopefully help, as PP has suggested) so not settling, and by the time she does she's OT which leads to the EW.

Yep, we only realy have EWs (OT) here if he isn't asleep by 8pm. When he was taking ages to settle as UT that is when we would get them.

[Tay]

How much does she talk/understand? Could you use a start chart or some other form of reward system (always works with DD).
Another one that we had to do with DD was leaving the bedroom door half opened, and I sat on my bedroom with lights on (on the laptop ) door also opened.

[clairebear79]

Following along with interest.  My DS is a little younger at 19 months but we are getting a similar night, he's taking up to 30mins to settle at bedtime and waking early, so we capped his nap back to 1.5hrs & its still happening, so I am wondering if he needs a drastic cut to 1hr.